More Farage wisdom

[sasguru]

UKIP fantasy

I reckon UKIP and their supporters, not being the brightest tools in the box, have not come to terms with the UK's reality. We're not in charge of an empire anymore and never will be. On the other hand we're not small enough to be flexible like Switzerland or the Scandinavian countries (some of whose population is less than London's).
What we are is a medium sized, dysfunctional economy (the most indebted in the world, with a Ponzi-scheme property bubble), albeit with some bits of excellence, that will need some help when it all comes tumbling down.
The Euro countries have swallowed their bitter medicine and it almost killed them, but what they don't have any more is a fake bubble economy - what you see now is the reality. Greece, Spain and Portugal were always poor countries and now they are what they are.

[sasguru]

As an example of what I mean, let's go back to car sales. Britain is one of the healthiest economies in Europe when it came to new-car registrations last year.
If you look closely though, most sales were on credit

[Gittins Gal]

I reckon UKIP and their supporters, not being the brightest tools in the box, have not come to terms with the UK's reality. We're not in charge of an empire anymore and never will be. On the other hand we're not small enough to be flexible like Switzerland or the Scandinavian countries (some of whose population is less than London's).
What we are is a medium sized, dysfunctional economy (the most indebted in the world, with a Ponzi-scheme property bubble), albeit with some bits of excellence, that will need some help when it all comes tumbling down.
The Euro countries have swallowed their bitter medicine and it almost killed them, but what they don't have any more is a fake bubble economy - what you see now is the reality. Greece, Spain and Portugal were always poor countries and now they are what they are.

All you ever use are the economic arguments.


You never address the inherently undemocratic way in which the EU goes about its business and the lies and subterfuge employed to get us where we are at present.

This will continue until we are inexorably drawn into some European Federal superstate.

Where do you stand on all this?

[sasguru]

All you ever use are the economic arguments.

You say that like the economy doesn't matter. I don't want to be "free" (as if that term is not relative anyway) and poor, there are plenty of 3rd world countries to move to if you feel like that.

You never address the inherently undemocratic way in which the EU goes about its business and the lies and subterfuge employed to get us where we are at present.

This will continue until we are inexorably drawn into some European Federal superstate.

Where do you stand on all this?

No one is arguing that the EU needs reform. And its most powerful member, Germany, agrees with the UK on this. France will become increasingly less powerful because they have failed to reform their economy. A partnership of the UK and Germany at the head of the table is what we should aim for, keeping the pound for now. And this is precisely Cameron's strategy - Hence why Hollande got a visit to a pub and Merkel got the full works

[DodgyAgent]

I reckon UKIP and their supporters, not being the brightest tools in the box, have not come to terms with the UK's reality. We're not in charge of an empire anymore and never will be. On the other hand we're not small enough to be flexible like Switzerland or the Scandinavian countries (some of whose population is less than London's).
What we are is a medium sized, dysfunctional economy (the most indebted in the world, with a Ponzi-scheme property bubble), albeit with some bits of excellence, that will need some help when it all comes tumbling down.
The Euro countries have swallowed their bitter medicine and it almost killed them, but what they don't have any more is a fake bubble economy - what you see now is the reality. Greece, Spain and Portugal were always poor countries and now they are what they are.

You can add Italy to the list of poor countries. trapped by the EURO you are right they will remain poor.
The UK may be living off a property bubble but what on earth makes you think other EU countries will help us when it all crashes down? Will they do the same for us as they have done for Ireland, Portugal, Greece, Italy and Spain?


The reality is that if you bothered to study history or read the news you will see what happens when totalitarianism takes over. This is where the whole EU project is going. Laws are made in Europe, and already the economies of the EU are under complete control of the germans and the EU. Economic integration has already happened.

There is no democratic accountability that these people answer to other than by proxy through governments with a vested interest to maintain the status quo..

[KentPhilip]

All you ever use are the economic arguments.


You never address the inherently undemocratic way in which the EU goes about its business and the lies and subterfuge employed to get us where we are at present.

This will continue until we are inexorably drawn into some European Federal superstate.

Where do you stand on all this?

Exactly.
What many pro-EU people fail to realise is that we the British people own this country. Own it.
Which means that through the democratic process we take the decisions about its management and destiny.

Just in the same way that a rich person might use their own money to buy a Ferrari and trash it, we can't criticize them at all (other than on a cultural level perhaps) because it is their money to waste. So even if was true that withdrawing from EU political union was a bad thing (even though that is not the case), it would still be right for that to happen because the British people have a right to control their own country. We are, by definition, in charge.

[DodgyAgent]

You say that like the economy doesn't matter. I don't want to be "free" (as if that term is not relative anyway) and poor, there are plenty of 3rd world countries to move to if you feel like that.




No one is arguing that the EU needs reform. And its most powerful member, Germany, agrees with the UK on this. France will become increasingly less powerful because they have failed to reform their economy. A partnership of the UK and Germany at the head of the table is what we should aim for, keeping the pound for now. And this is precisely Cameron's strategy - Hence why Hollande got a visit to a pub and Merkel got the full works

A lot of talk about the vague notion of "reform" but no one is defining what this actually means. It is a throwaway cliche designed to make people feel "something is being done". Perhaps you would like to point out some examples of "reform"

[KentPhilip]

I don't want to be "free" (as if that term is not relative anyway) and poor

I refer you to Benjamin Frankin, one of the founding fathers of the most successful country in the world:

"They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

In the long run, freedom is more important than anything else.

[Mich the Tester]

Are you aware of what you've just said there?

Yes, absolutely aware. The EU needs serious reforms to make it more like the EEC again; free trade, free movement and some coordination of product and service standards to prevent protectionist measures via the back door.

[Mich the Tester]

A lot of talk about the vague notion of "reform" but no one is defining what this actually means. It is a throwaway cliche designed to make people feel "something is being done". Perhaps you would like to point out some examples of "reform"

Nonsense; CMD knows what reforms he wants, Merkel knows what reforms she wants and they are not 100% identical but a basis for negotiation.