Dodgy contractor schemes, undercutting and competition

[Old Greg]

I imagine it's rare. Most tax avoiders are greedy feckers, and aren't avoiding tax to line the pockets of their clients.

I agree that's not why they're doing it, but what effect do their actions have? There will be times when they will be making more profit and that is between them and HMRC (on behalf of the taxpayer etc.)

But a lower cost base will make it possible for them to win new business when price is a key factor. Economics would suggest that this is true, but whether it happens for certain in reality, I don't know for sure.

[MicrosoftBob]

It's still only worth another £25 pd. Doesn't close the gap.

Couldn't you try wearing knickers ?

[Old Greg]

Couldn't you try wearing knickers ?

Then it's only an extra £10 pd. Hardly worthwhile.

[vetran]

I agree that's not why they're doing it, but what effect do their actions have? There will be times when they will be making more profit and that is between them and HMRC (on behalf of the taxpayer etc.)

But a lower cost base will make it possible for them to win new business when price is a key factor. Economics would suggest that this is true, but whether it happens for certain in reality, I don't know for sure.

you never been offered a 'cash price'?

[Old Greg]

you never been offered a 'cash price'?

I'd never thought of it in this way. The f***ers are pretty much offering a cash price only the clients don't know it's a cash price because the contractor's tax arrangements are invisible to the client.

[cailin maith]

What about the permies who earn significantly less than you lot simply because they aren't contractors.

Don't give me the bulltulip about how they should be contractors etc.

I'm a permie and I earn a modest amount for what I do. I'm damn sure I pay a lot more tax than you do on your min wage/£10k per year salary and your whacking great dividends.

You guys with your Ltd Co's taking the moral high ground - I bet if Joe Public on the street understood the way you structure your income he too would be thinking 'WTF' in the same way you lot think about the "avoiders".

Oh and ATW don't you weigh in here with your guff. You are in the unique (certainly in here) position that you actually run a bona fide business with employees etc. I don't want to get into a stupid debate with you.

[Old Greg]

What about the permies who earn significantly less than you lot simply because they aren't contractors.

Don't give me the bulltulip about how they should be contractors etc.

I'm a permie and I earn a modest amount for what I do. I'm damn sure I pay a lot more tax than you do on your min wage/£10k per year salary and your whacking great dividends.

You guys with your Ltd Co's taking the moral high ground - I bet if Joe Public on the street understood the way you structure your income he too would be thinking 'WTF' in the same way you lot think about the "avoiders".

Oh and ATW don't you weigh in here with your guff. You are in the unique (certainly in here) position that you actually run a bona fide business with employees etc. I don't want to get into a stupid debate with you.

And we know exactly what you do, young lady! Or have you moved on now?

But anyway. Yes, I'm aware that there's a discussion to be had for inside IR35 vs outside IR35 and permie vs contractor. But I'm interested whether dodgy scheme folk are undercutting the rest of us.

[mudskipper]

What about the permies who earn significantly less than you lot simply because they aren't contractors.

Don't give me the bulltulip about how they should be contractors etc.

I'm a permie and I earn a modest amount for what I do. I'm damn sure I pay a lot more tax than you do on your min wage/£10k per year salary and your whacking great dividends.

You guys with your Ltd Co's taking the moral high ground - I bet if Joe Public on the street understood the way you structure your income he too would be thinking 'WTF' in the same way you lot think about the "avoiders".

Oh and ATW don't you weigh in here with your guff. You are in the unique (certainly in here) position that you actually run a bona fide business with employees etc. I don't want to get into a stupid debate with you.

I pay a fair bit more tax in terms of pounds in the chancellor's coffers as a contractor than I ever did as a permie.

[cailin maith]

And we know exactly what you do, young lady! Or have you moved on now?

But anyway. Yes, I'm aware that there's a discussion to be had for inside IR35 vs outside IR35 and permie vs contractor. But I'm interested whether dodgy scheme folk are undercutting the rest of us.

Genuinely, I don't think they are.

Co's want to pay as little as they can for the best work in the same way that you want to charge the most you can for the work.

[sasguru]

You guys with your Ltd Co's taking the moral high ground - I bet if Joe Public on the street understood the way you structure your income he too would be thinking 'WTF' in the same way you lot think about the "avoiders".

Oh and ATW don't you weigh in here with your guff. You are in the unique (certainly in here) position that you actually run a bona fide business with employees etc. I don't want to get into a stupid debate with you.

I agree that many on here are disguised employees, and would fail an IR35 investigation.
Having employees is certainly an indicator of being outside IR35, but so is having multiple clients at once, working on your own equipment in your own office for fixed jobs of work that you decide the timings for.