The Labour party illegaly trading?

[CaribbeanPirate]

Improvements:

Government revenue has improved
The probability that any one person is on the government payroll has improved.
Ethnic minorities are no so much of a minority.
The chance of getting away with crime has improved.

[hyperD]

Seriously, it's all well and good looking at this with 20:20 hindsight, but remember the state of the country under the preceding government run by Major. The underlying problem is that we elect a government based on idealogy and not skills/experience/competence.

True, the younger types were swayed by the new spin in politics but us older chaps wouldn't vote liebour in the same way that once someone has stuck their tongue in a live socket, they never do it again.

[oraclesmith]

I would have thought that most people have quite a bit of difficulty choosing a party to vote for. It's not the sort of choice that you have between say, accepting a Range Rover Sport or £30,000 as your prize draw win - it's more the sort of choice you have between cancer or a stroke.

[BobTheCrate]

remember if it was not for Tory support then Blair would have failed to secure right voting.

The point is though Blair only got Tory support by deliberately massaging the intelligence evidence. Tory support was 'off the back of presented evidence'.

[AtW]

Tories would have done the same - the whole thing is pressure from the US and UK simply did not have a choice but to do what is necessary to get into the war. Its probably good thing that the whole thing took place because now it will serve as a good reference point for times when blind faith will be requested and hopefully not provided.

[BobTheCrate]

Bloody hell that was a quick reply AtW - you don't hang around for long ay ?

Like I said before I'm far from persuaded the Tories would have done the same. They would have seen there was not the evidence to justify invading Iraq. It wouldn't have created too much of a rift with the US because the 2 countries were already military partners in Afghanistan.

I think too the Tories would have been much more far sighted in seeing the broader picture in that Saddam was 'more on side than off' in the fight against Islamic nutters.

[oraclesmith]

We need a secular PM or at least one that doesn't susbscribe to the same sort of Christianity that Bush does.

The 'Islamic nutters' have a point when they go on about the Crusade against them. Blair and Bush make me quite uncomfortable - a bit like the care-in-the-community types who come and sit next to you on the Tube - you never quite know what they're going to do next.

[AtW]

Like I said before I'm far from persuaded the Tories would have done the same.

Well, you could be right - but from what I could see Tories seem to be closer to Republicans in the USA, who are traditionally more hawk-like, its just Blair/Brown nicked Tory's policies and actions, so in a way NL is pretty much Tory like (not in terms of waste however), that's why Tories are struggling.

There ought to be secret agreement between UK/USA that should basically state that either side will provide military support in case of one or more sides engaging in the war - so UK did not have a choice, even though Blair really pushed it in a way that will be remembered for a long time: there was no need to kiss butt, just say the truth - that ally - USA goes for it, and UK as faithful ally will have to support it.

[zathras]

It was time for the Tories to be ousted

Why? those of us who remember the last Labour Government had no wish to see aother one. We all knew it would end up being a disaster, which it has been but NL have spent 8 years cooking the books.

When Major lost the 1997 election we had reducing unemployment, a growing economy and inflation was going down or was at least stagnant. We were told that we had 24 hours to save the NHS. Well some of us did n't believe a word of if. What have we now. Increasing unemployment, increasing inflation, increasing interest rates, growth is down, taxes up and as for the NHS, cuts in Nurses and Doctors, theatres remaining closed to save money. As for waiting lists. The only reason they are smaller is because there is a waiting list to get on the waiting list!

Granted some folks in the Conservative party had a few too many sexual adventures but so what? With New Labour you have an unrelenting incompetance and corruption with our money, at least the Tories only cost themselves a job!

Tony Blair has said one true thing in his 9 years of office. He said the Dome would be a great monument to New Labour. It is - full of promise, costs a fortune but is rather empty and does not do the taxpayer any good. When they put a casino in it it will still be full of promise and still will do the taxpayer no good.

Major's biggest problem is that he did n't have much of majority in Parliament, which made pushing things through rather difficult. New Labour have spent much of the last decade doing all the things that it accused Major of (including raiding the lottery as some kind of supplement to taxation!)

[mcquiggd]

Don't forget, Derry Irvine, the then Lord Chancellor who was responsible for approving the appointment of new Judges, circulated a memo to those eligible, invited to a dinner, that a donation to the labour party of 'around £1000 would be appropriate'.

The same thing will happen again... "you want a job with The Firm? then pay the entrance fee...."