Anelka charged by FA

[Gittins Gal]

I've actually heard anti Semitic views around what I'd normally call very liberal left dining tables.

How's this for starters? One individual I know is in theatre (albeit at a very parochial level). I commented on how many Jewish people were in show business and pointed out that so many of the musical geniuses of our time are/were Jewish.

His response nearly floored my. It's a closed shop, he said. They keep it all among themselves. So, his logic would have it, for every Bernstein or Sondheim there are many gentiles equally or more talented who never get a look in.

Now, wasn't there somebody else who held similar views on why he couldn't get into art school in Vienna?

[Mich the Tester]

I've actually heard anti Semitic views around what I'd normally call very liberal left dining tables.

How's this for starters? One individual I know is in theatre (albeit at a very parochial level). I commented on how many Jewish people were in show business and pointed out that so many of the musical geniuses of our time are/were Jewish.

His response nearly floored my. It's a closed shop, he said. They keep it all among themselves. So, his logic would have it, for every Bernstein or Sondheim there are many gentiles equally or more talented who never get a look in.

Now, wasn't there somebody else who held similar views on why he couldn't get into art school in Vienna?

Lots of people think that way. People think they can't get a job because the foreigners have taken it, the multinationals are conspiring against them, the new world order is against them, ' the rich' want people to remain poor and so on and so forth; insert whichever prejudice you like. It's one thing to avoid blaming people for their misfortunes but if you can plant the idea in people's minds that their misfortune is somebody else's fault, then you can get people to support all sorts of nasty measures against whichever 'somebody else' you've chosen. It's even easier if there's some historical animosity between people that can be raked up again, as seems to have happened in the former Yugoslavia and in Rwanda. It seems to be surprisingly easy. Of course, it doesn't usually lead to genocide thankfully, but it's a series of small steps that might.

[Gibbon]

It can be, but many other nations have a history of anti-semitism too, e.g. Russia, France, Spain, Portugal, (ancient) Greece, (ancient) Rome etc.

They didn't like them becuase they wouldn't sacrifice to the Emperor (very simply put). However they treated them as a tribe and in return for not taking the oath they were taxed higher and not allowed to convert gentiles. Christians didn't like them because they crucified christ and were blind to the messiah. They were useful though for borrowing money from as they had no ban on usury. Shakespear's Merchant of Venice nicely show's this. In Christian culture, which the west strongly was up to lately, they were always looked down on and frequently put into Ghettos (Rome and Venice were some of the earliest).

Interestingly in some of the earliest Christian art in Rome there was still a split between Jewish christians and gentile christians, Santa Sabina and Santa Pudenzia are prime examples. The Jewish side was usually represented by St Peter the Gentile by St Paul.

[Mich the Tester]

There have been pogroms in Britain and Ireland too, mainly in the 11th century i think, but right up to riots against Jews in the early 20th century. Perhaps not as many as in other European countries, but it's certainly happened.

[minestrone]

Can we please get OG and Churchill back in for at least this one thread?

[RedSauce]

I think a lot of the problem is people don't really understand what antisemitism is and the different scales of it. At one end of the spectrum there are the Holocaust deniers and various other ridiculous theories, economic antisemitism. I am classed by many as an antisemite (albeit a new-antisemite) as I strongly oppose the Israeli settlements in the West Bank, although I am not racist and have visited concentration camps at Dachau and Auschwitz, in my eyes, the Israelis and Zionists cheapen what happened in those camps by brandishing actions antisemitism when in fact they are motivated by politics and ethics and are completely independent of race and religion.

[MarillionFan]

Can we please get OG and Churchill back in for at least this one thread?

Don't be stupid you Jew hating nonce.

(There you don't need them now)

[suityou01]

Don't be stupid you Jew hating nonce.

(There you don't need them now)

Didn't you go bedwetting to the Mods to get Old Greg banned for exactly the same offence?

[RedSauce]

Didn't you go bedwetting to the Mods to get Old Greg banned for exactly the same offence?

I am sure he was referring to a cryptographic nonce

[Flashman]

There have been pogroms in Britain and Ireland too, mainly in the 11th century i think, but right up to riots against Jews in the early 20th century. Perhaps not as many as in other European countries, but it's certainly happened.

Certainly did. I think all the Jewish people were even expelled in the 12th Century by some English king. Oliver Cromwell who let them back in.


Wheras more recently I think one of the last acts of the holocaust was the massacre in Poland in 1946.

Kielce pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By noon, the arrival of a large group of estimated about 600 to 1,000 workers from "Ludwików" steel mill, led by activists of the Poland's ruling Polish Workers' Party (PPR, communist party), marked the beginning of the next phase of the pogrom. About 20 Jews were brutally beaten to death by the workers, who were armed with steel rods and clubs. Many of the workers were members of the ORMO (reserve police) and at least one had a handgun. Neither the military and security commanders, including a Soviet military advisor, nor the local political leaders from the PPR did anything to stop the latest attacks. A unit of police cadets which also arrived there did not intervene, but some of its members joined in the looting and anti-Jewish violence which continued inside and outside the building.[7]