Labour's smoking ban killed the British pub

[Sysman]

It's about control. and power.

closing down discussion and debate. the definition of totalitarianism.

Aye.

On a practical point, how an earth is anyone supposed to get a lynch mob organised when everyone keeps nipping out for a smoke?

[Mich the Tester]

Yet again you twist the discussion to try and take the position of reasonableness:

• When we talked about fat people on planes, you wanted to bang on about it possibly being due to medical issues, which is statistically unusual
• When we were talking about people so fat they couldn't fit in a seat you twisted it to how we were claiming "overweight is bad", equating this life-threateningly obese minority with the average bloke with a spare tyre
• Now we're talking about people choosing to work 8 hour shifts in a smoke-filled room and you're twisting it to be about people "choosing to enter a smokey pub"

You've left out the fat people that bend space time around their unwipable arses. Some of us are waiting for an answer to how they wipe their bums.

[darmstadt]

You can see this in action right now: the number of people at a pedestrian crossings simply gawping at the light hoping the big green man god of walking flashes his approval so that they may pass in safety from the nasty vehicles, when in fact the road has been clear for several minutes.

I've walked across main roads when the light has been red and clear and the number of people who simply stand there and stare at you. I've half expected Donald Sutherland to come running out pointing at me making a strange noise...

When in England I'm surprised at the amount of people who cross the road when the little man is red as in Germany its illegal and you'll get fined. In fact if you cross the road when its red and you do get hit by a car then you'll be liable for any damages, sensible I think.

[Platypus]

Some of us are waiting for an answer to how they wipe their bums.

KUATB

http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...t=#post1874622

[Platypus]

in Germany its illegal and you'll get fined

Ah that explains the tutting. I didn't know it was illegal

[darmstadt]

You've left out the fat people that bend space time around their unwipable arses. Some of us are waiting for an answer to how they wipe their bums.

Plan B - short Romanians.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Yet again I note that it is the "rightie" in all this argument who does not display a degree of contempt for ordinary people.

Assuming that those with intelligence and education should make all the decisions in society is a mistake we have been making for too long. As some of the fact-free stuff we read on CUK indicates, intelligence and education do not make for good judgment and the intelligent and educated are just as likely to think emotionally, ignore facts or make selective use of them as anyone else. Entire nations have been wrecked and millions have died because of intelligent leaders in pursuit of their unrealistic ideals.

The UK would work a damn site better if we took more account of the feelings of the majority. Policies that are more in line with normal human needs are more likely to work.

That's what markets are for.

[Gittins Gal]

Yet again you twist the discussion to try and take the position of reasonableness:

• When we talked about fat people on planes, you wanted to bang on about it possibly being due to medical issues, which is statistically unusual
• When we were talking about people so fat they couldn't fit in a seat you twisted it to how we were claiming "overweight is bad", equating this life-threateningly obese minority with the average bloke with a spare tyre
• Now we're talking about people choosing to work 8 hour shifts in a smoke-filled room and you're twisting it to be about people "choosing to enter a smokey pub"

You're also deliberately putting derogatory words in my mouth, that I'm calling people "thick". It's all very transparent.

But if you must, then to see how 'thick' the average person is (they're not thick, just normal people) just look at how many people still smoke, and take up smoking, when there is no medical doubt how bad it is for you.

And it's not only about being thick as I already said - if you need a job badly and one comes up, what father wouldn't risk their own well-being to keep their children fed?

I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I used that word for emphasis.

Anyhow, point 1 - I mention the fat guy on the plane because normally it provokes people to condemn him for being a greedy so and so. When, in fact, he could be obese for another reason. Why do people have a go? Because all these quangos babbling on about obesity 24/7 through all the media channels somehow seems to legitimise this unpleasant point of view.

Point 2 - (who is this sinister "we" to which you refer). Any degree of being overweight is generally treated as being a bad thing.

Point 3: as I've said before, the whole second hand smoke argument is tenuous to say the least. And when the American Cancer Association states that there is no significant link then it renders your argument pretty much useless really.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Again, another dreadfully patronising viewpoint.

So, we have to create these blanket laws that affect everyone to protect people in lowly positions because they are too simple to take those decisions for themselves?

Some people just want to baseline us all against the lowest common denominator, and they're happy to use violence to make sure you agree with them.

[SpontaneousOrder]

And in that definition I would include schools, hospitals, roads etc. But NOT state interference into matters concerning how I choose to live my life.

He's right.
"And in that definition I would include schools, hospitals, roads etc." - why make special exceptions? Your positions aren't principled.

A free market can provide all of those things, but for some reason you think that only a group of men who call themselves 'government' have special powers to achieve it (and the inconsistency in principle is that you suppose that they have the right to).