UK leaves EU?

[minestrone]

errr they don't now so what's the difference?

"Given a choice between being a British Citizen and being a European Citizen, which would you choose?"

Have a think about it inspector.

[darmstadt]

What is the relevance of that table posted by Mich the Tester? Another of these stupid lefty "arguments" - oh look the British migrate to other countries too, therefore we should not complain about migration to the UK wherever its from and however crap the quality.

Enormous numbers of people from the old EU live here too, just a few figures I found in a couple of minutes:
between 300,000 and 400,000 Frenchman in London alone
Irish 407,000
273,654 Germans
130,000 Italians
73,659 Spanish
88,161 Portuguese (including British born people of Portuguese descent)

So what? They really are not the problem as the downsides/benefits are fairly reciprocal. It has no bearing on the issues with some Eastern EU countries of much lower GDP per capita and problems of crime and porous borders.

Eh?

2011 United Kingdom
Country of birth Population
United Kingdom United Kingdom 5,175,677
India India 262,247
Poland Poland 158,300
Republic of Ireland Ireland 129,807
Nigeria Nigeria 114,718
Pakistan Pakistan 112,457
Bangladesh Bangladesh 109,948
Jamaica Jamaica 87,467
Sri Lanka Sri Lanka 84,542
France France 66,654
South Africa South Africa 66,654
Kenya Kenya 66,311
Somalia Somalia 65,333
United States United States 63,920
Italy Italy 62,050
Ghana Ghana 62,896
Turkey Turkey 59,596
Germany Germany 55,476
Australia Australia 53,959
Romania Romania 44,848
Philippines Philippines 44,199
Portugal Portugal 41,041
Lithuania Lithuania 39,817
China China 39,452
Iran Iran 37,339
Spain Spain 35,880
Hong Kong Hong Kong 26,435
Zimbabwe Zimbabwe 21,039

[KentPhilip]

What's UKIP's position on 2 million or so pensioners and other expats all having to give up their lives and come back to our miserable cold isle? Presumably you'd plan on kicking out an equivalent number of working age immigrants.

As Flashman says, there would be no reason for Spain to kick out our wealthy expats living there, given that they are being financed from the UK (their own wealth and UK pension entitlements).
UKIP policy is to limit immigration, not to kick out existing immigrants. Though I personally would support encouraging the less productive of those to go back to their countries of origin through fiscal policy.

[TykeMerc]

The EU should have stuck to the original 6 members. Get a central Government of the original 6 sorted over a period of say 50-100 years. Then invite wealthy peripheral countries to join as and when.

Instead we get this Imperial madness of the EU running everything from the Atlantic to the Volga....

True, it went wildly out of reasonable scope long ago and has just accelerated since.

Clearly it's being driven by someone's view of a federated European continent along the lines of the USA as tried by a certain Corsican/Frenchman in the last 1700's early 1800's and a certain German/Austrian in the 1940's.

[Mich the Tester]

What is the relevance of that table posted by Mich the Tester?

Just information, not an argument. Do what you will with it.

[Mich the Tester]

Errr why on earth would they be kicked out? They are spending their savings and pensions in those countries. If they left Spain then their property market would collapse, thousands of Spanish jobs dependent on the pensioners spending money would go and tourism would take a big hit.

Can't see many upsides for Spain there.


Looking at those figures on page 1 and removing the pensioners I would say there are less 800,000 Brits working in the EU. Being generous lets call it a million. This is out of a UK working age total of 33 million. Or less than 3%.


3% benefit so that 97% suffer?

And those 3% would almost certainly get working visa's anyway which would actually be on asset on their CV.


What exactly is the problem?

In the eyes of some populists people like me are taking jobs away from the locals; in other words, there's a fair chance we'd be chucked out, even if we are highly qualified people who contribute a lot.

[DodgyAgent]

You people who call yourself european might like to explain what you mean by it. Does it mean you have difficulty forming relationships so you are just casting a wider net?

[Mich the Tester]

You people who call yourself european might like to explain what you mean by it. Does it mean you have difficulty forming relationships so you are just casting a wider net?

I don't call myself European.

[darmstadt]

You people who call yourself european might like to explain what you mean by it. Does it mean you have difficulty forming relationships so you are just casting a wider net?

Shurely shome mishtake? I would have thought that people who call themselves Europeans are more likely to form relationships due to the close proximity of other people than people who are insular Unless its being arse****ed by people from a long, long way away

[Zero Liability]

In the eyes of some populists people like me are taking jobs away from the locals; in other words, there's a fair chance we'd be chucked out, even if we are highly qualified people who contribute a lot.

It depends on which you ask. UKIP is keen on work permits, so for the high skilled end of the market the status quo would remain as is.