USA’s top Climate Change Expert Lied

[EternalOptimist]

We agree on one thing - it is not the most pressing priority,...

well well. here we are again
second time in two days

the facts are right.. but lets attack something else


I am truly glad that you are starting to come around a little.

[original PM]

Stuff Blah

which found that $800bn spent on Mitigation/R&D/Adaptation yields benefits of $2129bn.

Mo stuff

Based on fooking what?

Printing fookin money?

If I give them some dosh can the triple it for me too?

Oh sorry problably not - unless I invest in carbon lies tax maybe and line the pockets of me n me mates off the backs of hardworking people we peddle lies and subterfuge to just to fuel our greed and petty hatred.

[EternalOptimist]

why energy bills are rising

here is something for old greg to look at.

he follows the so called concensus on cagw, I dont.
we both agree that some of the policies are stupid

I think our energy policy is stupid. read the link

[Old Greg]

We agree on one thing - it is not the most pressing priority, but you could make the same argument about the defence budget (for example), bllions spent on wars or terrorist activities which may or may not come about, on a far smaller probability than the threat from climate change. Good luck with diverting that budget to clean water.

Every study on the economics has concluded that the benefit/cost ratio of mitigation + adpatation is positive, and it does not have to be expensive in relative terms, a few % of GDP to prevent a far greater reduction in productivity as we adapt to a changing climate. Here's one commissioned by Lomborg himself as part of the Copenhagen Consensus project:

ISSUU - SummaryGlobalWarming by Copenhagen Consensus Center

which found that $800bn spent on Mitigation/R&D/Adaptation yields benefits of $2129bn.

BTW, I did a quick check and in 2012 Germany subsidies, in the form of the FIT, were EUR 14bn, or around $18 bn for wind and solar combined, so I dunno where Lomborg got his numbers from. And the solar FIT is being phased out: seems it has achieved the aim of stimulating investment and bringing down costs...

But where it (actions taken to deal with climate change by reducing emissions) all falls down IMO is that fast developing countries are going to burn a hell of a lot of coal to industrialise fully. Unless that coal (and other fossils of course) is not burnt, then solar panels are pissing in the wind. My suspicion is that capitalism will not support a reduction in emissions (because the drive to be competitive will always lead to the cheapest power source to undercut those using more expensive power sources, and of course externalities are not priced into the power source) and that capitalism will continue. So, unless there is a breakthrough such as thorium power which proves cheaper than coal, there needs to be an engineering solution to deal with the coal being burnt. And if there isn't an engineering solution, we are screwed to an extent not yet known.

[pjclarke]

It is hard to convey just how selective you have to be to dismiss the evidence for climate change. You must climb over a mountain of evidence to pick up a crumb: a crumb which then disintegrates in your palm. You must ignore an entire canon of science, the statements of the world’s most eminent scientific institutions, and thousands of papers published in the foremost scientific journals. You must, if you are David Bellamy, embrace instead the claims of an eccentric former architect, which are based on what appears to be a non-existent data set. And you must do all this while calling yourself a scientist.

Junk Science | George Monbiot

[pjclarke]

But where it (actions taken to deal with climate change by reducing emissions) all falls down IMO is that fast developing countries are going to burn a hell of a lot of coal to industrialise fully. Unless that coal (and other fossils of course) is not burnt, then solar panels are pissing in the wind. [ ... ]. And if there isn't an engineering solution, we are screwed to an extent not yet known.

WHS. We left it at least two decades too late for any action now to be effective.

[Old Greg]

WHS. We left it at least two decades too late for any action now to be effective.

It was never possible. Too much of the world to industrialise. But although cutting emissions is a pretty laughable target, burying your head in the sand isn't helpful.

[pjclarke]

I think our energy policy is stupid. read the link

Yeah, clearly handing control of an essential utility over to a de facto cartel of private companies has not worked out all that well for the consumer ...Who could have predicted that?

[Old Greg]

why energy bills are rising

here is something for old greg to look at.

he follows the so called concensus on cagw, I dont.
we both agree that some of the policies are stupid

I think our energy policy is stupid. read the link

Have you got a point?

[pjclarke]

It (effective GHG emission reduction) was never possible.

In reality, I agree. There are technical solutions that allow us to decouple the historic correlation between economic development and fossil fuel, but they are largely political non-starters. For example cement production is a huge CO2 producer, it requires energy to get the high temperatures needed for production and the process itself generates CO2 as a waste product. There exist viable low-temperature low-CO2 alternatives but without an incentive to switch, the industry sticks to the 'devil it knows'.

As long as there is not a source that provides the energy density of coal at a comparable cost then the Chinese (say) will dig it up and burn it, and who can blame them? They're the largest emitters now but on a per capita basis they chuck out about a quarter of what the US does, and most of the CO2 in the atmosphere was put there by the First World. Absent a binding global agreement to include the long term costs of fossil fuels in their price, which would require unprecedented political co-operation on a global scale, which seems unlikely, to say the least, interesting times lie ahead for us and our kids...