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England owes Poland immigrant claims

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    Originally posted by zeitghost
    How curious, George C. Scott played Patton as well...

    Dr. Strangelove (or how I learned to stop worrying and love the Bomb).
    Yes, it struck me too. Both fine, but very different, performances. An Oscar deservedly won for Patton (even though he refused it).


      Originally posted by AtW
      Soviet side won because of quantity rather than quality: T34s were good, but crews were not as well playing in the team as Germans, so as the result we were losing a lot of tanks, but who cares when you have huge assembly lines making those tanks like there is no tomorrow and endless flow of people who are willing to die for fake communist believes?
      For sure. I'm sure I read a factoid somewhere along the lines that the Soviets produced more tanks in the nine months prior to the end of the war than the Germans did in the nine years prior to the end of the war.


        Yes Soviet production (German) was going very high - lots of resources were available, where as Germans had to do it under air raids, but more importantly without key resources - in tank production some materials are necessary for making of good armour and they were not present in Germany.

        The production figures in links are a bit hard to compare - in Russian side they are brokendown rather than total, and in German side you really need to ignore old types of P IV and below - so in 1944 Germans managed to make 5,000 medium and heavy tanks (Panther and Tiger), but Russians made 21,000 - 4 times more.

        German Panther (late models) was however better than T34, but Germans were making up lack of quantity with quality - team play and very good command, otherwise they would have fallen apart very early in the war.


          Same in the early years of the war too, Alexei, but then the Germans had inferior tanks compared to their British and French opposites. The most reliable and advanced tanks the Germans had in 1939 were made by Skoda in Czechoslovakia. What the Germans had in the period 1939 - 1941 were superior tactics.


            Yes Germans were very good from team playing point of view - I think its fair to say that Russians are not very good team players (see how poor Russian teams do in Olympics or any sport), though individually very strong.

            If people like Manstein and Guderians were in complete command then I doubt USSR would have won the war, but then again they would not have started this war in the first place - they'd have to defend against Stalin's attack that was imminent in 1941 or 1942 at the latest.


              Originally posted by zeitghost

              They had worse tanks than the British?

              My goodness, they must have been crap.
              The Germans used to refer to the British tanks as Tommy Cookers owing to their relative vulnerabilty.


                Allied tanks were not used correctly at the start of WW2 - Germans use P I (with machine gun) and P II (very light gun): they won not because tanks were heavy armoured or with huge guns, but because they exploited doctrine of mobility.


                  Germans took a number of good ideas, such as dive bombers for example: much like USA after that war that took ideas and people from everywhere so long as they could contribute, a very sound basis for immigration.


                    Oh come on - give vob Braun a break: at some point he was arrested by the SS and put into prison for doing research that was not directly needed to blow people - he was actually looking to build rockets that will be used for space exploration. Sure Faus killed people - but so did Tigers, Panthers, Junkers and others: this is war we talking about and so long as he was not involved in design and production of gas champers for mass murders, he is not guilty of war crimes. Plus his further work reabilitated him big time.


                      (feck, I lost the original posting)

                      The Americans expatriated a substantial amount of disillusioned German scientists after WWII to work on the first atomic bomb and other projects.

                      At the end of the war, all parties (the USA, the UK and Russia) wanted to divide up Europe up to consume its resources to pay for the war.

                      America succeeded in obtaining a large number of "Nazi" scientists who then went on to create the atomic bomb, garlic bread and MDF.

                      If you think my attitude stinks, you should smell my fingers.