Greed is Good!

[Old Greg]

You´ve pointed to a policy there which was bad in practice. Of course it´s silly to expect people to become more intelligent by sending them to university even if their grades aren´t up to scratch. However, that doesn´t negate the idea of reducing inequality of opportunity or trying to ensure that even the least intelligent or capable people can have a quality of life that is generally accepted as decent and the opportunity to lead a fulfilling life. Of course dimwits can't be astronauts, but they don't have to be left to rot just because they're less intelligent than other people. This isn´t even an exclusively left wing theme anyway.

Of course it isn't. The right at the moment makes Macmillan seem like a Maoist.

[Old Greg]

1. Clever but meaningless

2. You were right

The founding fathers held that all men are created equal. I believe (but it would be good if an RC could confirm) that a similar view underpins the Catholic Church's views on the dignity of human life.

[DodgyAgent]

It is entirely logically possible for everyone to be equal to each other in terms of their worth as human beings. You may or may not agree that this is in fact the case.

If you mean that it is not logically possible for everyone to have an equal economic outcome, you are right. But nobody on the left has been aiming for that since utopian socialism went out of fashion in about 1830. KEEP UP!

It is possible for people to be of equal "worth" if you pay them all the same, make them live in the same house, make them do the same job and make them have the same number of kids and be married at a certain age. So in that sense you are quite right. What Lisa is alluding to is that the impossibility exists because the possibility is a ridiculous notion and could only be applied by force .

Equality therefore is an entirely subjective "concept" based on a set of rules that will always fall apart under any logical scrutiny. It is used therefore as a tool by the left to manipulate the guilt in people and to stop us from aspiring higher than the highest common denominator.

[DodgyAgent]

The founding fathers held that all men are created equal. I believe (but it would be good if an RC could confirm) that a similar view underpins the Catholic Church's views on the dignity of human life.

Who's founding fathers? yours? certainly not mine. Religion is another concept that is used to manipulate the emotions of human beings into acquiescing to the control of others.

[Mich the Tester]

The founding fathers held that all men are created equal. I believe (but it would be good if an RC could confirm) that a similar view underpins the Catholic Church's views on the dignity of human life.

Imagine if that principle didn't exist; it'd be very easy for a brainy person to go and torture or maim someone less intelligent and then get a light sentence or even no sentence by saying 'well his life is worthless anyway because he's thick'. By enshrining equality in law you ensure that everybody has an equal right to protection under the law. Now we're talking about intelligence because that's on of the major determinants of wealth and 'success' in our times, but in other times physical strength was a major determinant. Without the religious and legal principles of equality, a large strong person could then go and kill someone smaller and argue in his defence, quite validly, ´he was worthless because he´s a puny little weed so I get off for free´.

[Old Greg]

It is possible for people to be of equal "worth" if you pay them all the same, make them live in the same house, make them do the same job and make them have the same number of kids and be married at a certain age. So in that sense you are quite right. What Lisa is alluding to is that the impossibility exists because the possibility is a ridiculous notion and could only be applied by force .

Equality therefore is an entirely subjective "concept" based on a set of rules that will always fall apart under any logical scrutiny. It is used therefore as a tool by the left to manipulate the guilt in people and to stop us from aspiring higher than the highest common denominator.

What are you taking about? Why on earth should equal worth or value be dependent on equal pay. What an impoverished existence you must lead.

[Old Greg]

Who's founding fathers? yours? certainly not mine. Religion is another concept that is used to manipulate the emotions of human beings into acquiescing to the control of others.

You may not agree with the principe of equal worth, not it's not logically impossible.

[Mich the Tester]

Who's founding fathers? yours? certainly not mine. Religion is another concept that is used to manipulate the emotions of human beings into acquiescing to the control of others.

The Founding Fathers´s values probably are yours to a great extent, because their writings and agreements were rooted firmly in the British and European Enlightenment.

[DodgyAgent]

What are you taking about? Why on earth should equal worth or value be dependent on equal pay. What an impoverished existence you must lead.

I was trying to explain the only way that human beings could be equal. To be equal there would have to be a way of measuring it. Assuming that your use of the word "worth" related to a tangible concept I explained accordingly. Obviously this is not what you meant by the word "worth". How then can human beings be of equal worth?

[sasguru]

It is possible for people to be of equal "worth" if you pay them all the same.

You're missing the point (as usual) because you (and Lisa) are thick.
Since I am an intellectual snob I think you two are worthless and should be shot.
Both of you are parasites living on the constructive work of others.
Lisa, in particular, makes a living because the government takes what we, the clever wealth creators, earn and she takes a % of that. If we were to keep all of what we earn, she wouldn't have a job. And so we could dispose of her with equanimity.