Conservative MP wants even more Bobs to be let in

[russell]

Like it or not, he's right; China and India will play a bigger and bigger part in the world's economy. He's not calling for unlimited access for them but calling for a sense of reality. Europe and the US are probably no longer going to be the dominant forces in the world's economy and we have to adapt to that. Or give up and end up poor.

I agree that China and India will become more dominant, but I don't see them overtaking the US any time soon, US has double the GDP, is the most technologically advanced country and has thousands more nukes than China.

[Mich the Tester]

I am still trying to understand what it is we are not selling to India that we will sell if we let more of them in?

It's not as simple as that and I think you know that; it's about relations. You build relations with potential clients, and some become clients and you sell to them, while others don't become clients but the goodwill created can lead to business via-via.

Anyway, I don't think the MP is calling for more people to be let in, but calling for the doors to not be shut.

[MicrosoftBob]

It's not as simple as that and I think you know that; it's about relations. You build relations with potential clients, and some become clients and you sell to them, while others don't become clients but the goodwill created can lead to business via-via.

Anyway, I don't think the MP is calling for more people to be let in, but calling for the doors to not be shut.

If mass immigration was the solution for overcrowded small islands to improve business relations, surely Japan would be asking to be flooded with ICTs

[zoco]

There's the dreadful sound of somebody wringing their hands in here...

[CoolCat]

I am still trying to understand what it is we are not selling to India that we will sell if we let more of them in?

Cameron has agreed to the (badly named) EU/India Free Trade Deal (which allows infinite ICT work visas from India forever more) on the hope that we can sell India more financial services (which we wont).

The problem with this trade deal is that they will all come to the UK (as the educated Indian nationals speak English) and not go to Germany or France as there is a natural language barrier, and yet Germany and France will get the full benefits in the other direction.

[Mich the Tester]

If mass immigration was the solution for overcrowded small islands to improve business relations, surely Japan would be asking to be flooded with ICTs

There are lots of Koreans who went there during the post war economic boom to fill up labour shortages, and Chinese and Philipinos more recently. However, less have to migrated to Japan lately and in fact many have left as the Korean and Chinese economies present more opportunities. There's still a few million of them and their children though.

[SueEllen]

Cameron has agreed to the (badly named) EU/India Free Trade Deal (which allows infinite ICT work visas from India forever more) on the hope that we can sell India more financial services (which we wont).

The problem with this trade deal is that they will all come to the UK (as the educated Indian nationals speak English) and not go to Germany or France as there is a natural language barrier, and yet Germany and France will get the full benefits in the other direction.

That's because we have a stupid tax regime that Germany and France don't have. There are plenty of English IT workers in Germany and I know they don't all speak German. If we changed our tax system then ICTs and their employers have to pay more into the system and not undermine British workers. However UK governments - regardless of political colour - only care about big business.

[sasguru]

We should first of all stop wasting all the talent that is destroyed by our dreadful education system.

THIS is a very valid point.

Actually this is NOT a valid point.

Here's an explanation of why.

In the past we had a system whereby 1 brainy person could provide jobs for millions of stupid people e.g. someone invents the internal combustion engine, loads of car companies arise, employing thickos to screw in the same door year after year.
Now, in a knowledge economy that doesn't work. Almost everyone who works in Google or GSK or any of the growth, knowledge companies has to be clever.
And in the UK we are very good at educating clever people.
Problem is there aren't enough clever local people (say with an IQ >120) for the demand that knowledge companies create.
Hence the need for brainy immigrants.
Go to any company that needs an MSc minimum, like my current client, and it's like the UN in there - they couldn't possibly fill all the roles with locals.

This problem will only become worse - those with better cognitive abilities (regardless of nationality) will become the new elite as the century (and complexity) advances, in demand all over the world.

[zoco]

Actually this is NOT a valid point.

Here's an explanation of why.

In the past we had a system whereby 1 brainy person could provide jobs for millions of stupid people e.g. someone invents the internal combustion engine, loads of car companies arise, employing thickos to screw in the same door year after year.
Now, in a knowledge economy that doesn't work. Almost everyone who works in Google or GSK or any of the growth, knowledge companies has to be clever.
And in the UK we are very good at educating clever people.
Problem is there aren't enough clever local people (say with an IQ >120) for the demand that knowledge companies create.
Hence the need for brainy immigrants.
Go to any company that needs an MSc minimum, like my current client, and it's like the UN in there - they couldn't possibly fill all the roles with locals.

This problem will only become worse - those with better cognitive abilities (regardless of nationality) will become the new elite as the century goes on, in demand all over the world.

Nonsense. Up until about 10-15 years ago there were very few overseas people in any of the software houses in which I worked and certainly no Indians. In my current client co EVERY new starter without exception has been Indian. While I concede that there are more IT companies than 10 years ago, this doesn't explain this transformation in the working demographic. What does, though, is the fact that they are cheap and take preference over locals.

I'll ignore your cheap shot at the uneducated working class because I just can't be bothered...

[Mich the Tester]

Nonsense. Up until about 10-15 years ago there were very few overseas people in any of the software houses in which I worked and certainly no Indians. In my current client co EVERY new starter without exception has been Indian. While I concede that there are more IT companies than 10 years ago, this doesn't explain this transformation in the working demographic. What does, though, is the fact that they are cheap and take preference over locals.

I'll ignore your cheap shot at the uneducated working class because I just can't be bothered...

Did anyone say anything about the working class?