British Grand Prix Cancelled

[SimonMac]

What worries me, is that the Kevlar banded ones, were designed to stop delaminations, but these were blow outs, proper job blow outs. As Whitmarsh said yesterday too, Cars have been driving over these kerbs for the past 60 years with no ill effect. Talking of Kerbs, there was one in Turkey that was renowned as a suspension killer, so the drivers didn't use that kerb, apart from massa who twice destroyed his suspension on it, which kind of points to agreeing with Brundle.

That's my, albeit limited view on the subject, drivers try to take the kerb closer and closer, if they realise that its gonna be a bigger risk to cut it than go wide they will stop doing it.

[Advocate]

Bollocks, and bollocks thrice more. The kerbs are part of the track, that's why, in using them, they're not censured, as they would, if using a run off area to gain advantage. There shouldn't be an inside to a kerb you mutton, as then it wouldn't be a kerb, it would be a barrier.

...

From F1 regulations:

20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.

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[Old Hack]

From F1 regulations:

20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.

Sent from my tweeting foot massager.

The 'whole' of the car mustn't leave the track, not part if it, is the part you left out. This means getting two wheels over the kerbs is legal, but popping all 4 over isn't. If you can recall last years German GP (I think), Vettel overtook Button with all 4 wheels off the track, and was penalised for it. However, in Bahrain 2012, Rosberg forced Hamilton off the track, so all 4 wheels were outside the white lines, but it was not punished, as it was said he took evasive action.

In short, you can put two wheels off the track legally.

[Advocate]

The 'whole' of the car mustn't leave the track, not part if it, is the part you left out. This means getting two wheels over the kerbs is legal, but popping all 4 over isn't. If you can recall last years German GP (I think), Vettel overtook Button with all 4 wheels off the track, and was penalised for it. However, in Bahrain 2012, Rosberg forced Hamilton off the track, so all 4 wheels were outside the white lines, but it was not punished, as it was said he took evasive action.

In short, you can put two wheels off the track legally.

But you can't complain if you get a puncture from an area that is defined as not part of the track!

Edited 'cus I was talking tulip!

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[VectraMan]

I agree with Anderson. You should not have lips on kerbs, or they are no longer kerbs when they are like that.

Presumably that's nothing new. It's the third or fourth year of the new Silverstone, and all the kerbs and the track will have been rigorously examined by the FIA this year like every year, not to mention the drivers and engineers getting to walk around the track. And nobody mentioned those sharp edges, which are I would think exactly the same as on every other serated kerb.

I also think stronger tyres do not necessarily, hand the championship to Vettel, for if Hamilton had not had his issue yesterday, I am utterly convinced, that he would have beaten Vettel on merit.

Well yes it looks good for Mercedes. I'm not convinced they have the consistency to win the championship, but you never know. There's still more than half left.

[Old Hack]

You're right but my understanding is that that's a gentleman's agreement rather than a formal interpretation of the rules.

Sent from my tweeting foot massager.

No, the rules state, you cannot leave the track. Keeping two wheels within the track means you haven't, for to leave the track, all 4 wheels have to have crossed the white lines. As ever, in F1, its interpreting the rules. But, clearly, you can have 2 wheels off the track.

20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.
Should a car leave the track the driver may rejoin, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any advantage.

As I said, you left an important bit out.

[Old Hack]

Presumably that's nothing new. It's the third or fourth year of the new Silverstone, and all the kerbs and the track will have been rigorously examined by the FIA this year like every year, not to mention the drivers and engineers getting to walk around the track. And nobody mentioned those sharp edges, which are I would think exactly the same as on every other serated kerb.



Well yes it looks good for Mercedes. I'm not convinced they have the consistency to win the championship, but you never know. There's still more than half left.

It's the speed, and quality, of their updates that have surprised me about Mercedes. They now have 3 development teams, one for this year, one for 2014, and even one for 2015.

I am having a punt on Hamilton to win the WDC with a side bet that they'll also win the WCC. Something tells me that the tide has changed. Silverstone, is something known as a 'front limited' track, in which Merc were expected to struggle, as their car favours a 'rear limited' track. They were also renowned to favour cooler temps. But they seem to have resolved it. It's quite clear, that the Merc is now, the quickest car out there, and has been for a while, but that's over one lap. If they can get harder tyres, which seems to be the way this is going, then they're really in the best place, as they can push all the way through.

[Old Hack]

But you can't complain if you get a puncture from an area that is defined as not part of the track!

Edited 'cus I was talking tulip!

Sent from my tweeting foot massager.

You can, if you've taken precisely the same line for 10 years, then all of a sudden, the tyres are ripped apart. If it is dangerous, as it clearly is, then you shouldn't be ABLE to use the kerbs.

[Advocate]

You can, if you've taken precisely the same line for 10 years, then all of a sudden, the tyres are ripped apart. If it is dangerous, as it clearly is, then you shouldn't be ABLE to use the kerbs.

There are two different areas to look at, one is to do with damage caused by the kerbs. The other is the type of failure that occurs ( I.e catastrophic vs controlled deflation ).

I agree the kerbs shouldn't be dangerous but I'm not convinced manufacturers can complain if damage is caused by non track areas, otherwise we'll find then moaning that the Armco is too strong and damages the car...

Pirelli still have a lot to answer for but it's not a one sided argument! It could still be the old case of designing what the customer wants vs what the customer needs!

Sent from my tweeting foot massager.

[Old Hack]

There are two different areas to look at, one is to do with damage caused by the kerbs. The other is the type of failure that occurs ( I.e catastrophic vs controlled deflation ).

I agree the kerbs shouldn't be dangerous but I'm not convinced manufacturers can complain if damage is caused by non track areas, otherwise we'll find then moaning that the Armco is too strong and damages the car...

Pirelli still have a lot to answer for but it's not a one sided argument! It could still be the old case of designing what the customer wants vs what the customer needs!

Sent from my tweeting foot massager.

But the kerbs are part of the track, aren't they? By the very fact it's not illegal to use them, then they become part of the track. When there are walls, drivers do not, in the main, hit them. As I said, there was one kerb at Turkey, that was slightly higher than the others, and it smashed the suspension. The drivers simply didn't use that kerb. If the organisers had said, that kerb has a sharp inside, and it will cause a massive deflation, the drivers would not have used it. But the fact is, they have always used it.

Any part of the track, that is 0.1mm less than the full width of the car, is part of the track, as defined by the regulations themselves, as you are allowed to use it. Therefore, as safety is paramount, you have to take these areas into consideration, and as a rule, the FIA do. This is a new thing. Look at any Brit GP over the past 30 years, watch that corner, and you'd see cars using it.

The only way around this, would be to say the car has to have all 4 wheels within the track at all times.