British Grand Prix Cancelled

[d000hg]

Yes the end was good, but did get a bit boring when it looked like another easy win for Vettel.

To be fair to Massa, it wasn't his fault. And those kerbs aren't exactly new.

Just because old tyres can cope with driving too far over the kerbs doesn't mean new tyres should be expected to. However, they clearly should fail in a safer fashion - puncturing a tyre for pushing too far is probably acceptable but endangering other drivers isn't.

Seeing all that crap hitting Kimi in the face was concerning aside from the risks of crashing.

[VectraMan]

Just because old tyres can cope with driving too far over the kerbs doesn't mean new tyres should be expected to.

Why not? They should design the tyres for the way they'll be used, and that includes kerbs. It's called engineering. This is Pirelli's 4th year (I think), so they should know what they're doing by now.

I doubt it was anything to do with the kerbs though.

[d000hg]

They are technically not supposed to go on the kerbs, it's accepted that this is allowed but the fact they are hitting the inside edge of the tyre on the inside of the kerb means they are a whole wheel on the wrong side of the kerb. Perhaps a tyre which isn't so forgiving would stop them pushing the boundaries.

Current car design allows you to clout the rear against a wall fairly hard without breaking anything, but it wasn't always that way - it's really a side-effect of the regulations. It doesn't mean drivers are 'supposed' to be able to hit walls when they go too close and mess it up, if rules change the drivers might have weaker cars and would have to change driving styles accordingly to be more cautious of walls. Equally, weaker tyres might mean drivers have to be more conservative in how they attack the kerbs.

[Zippy]

You may want to take the risk of pushing the tyres too far but, if the tyres fail in the way they did today, you are also risking other peoples lives. Alonso was lucky today too.

I think Gary Anderson had a point (love listening to him explain stuff) but the tyres still shouldn't fail like that.
Thought Kai Ebel's jacket was rather disappointing today.

[Doggy Styles]

Should we blame Pirelli? The sport gets the tyres it asks for, and Pirelli didn't construct those new improved extra-sharp kerb edges.

[Old Hack]

They are technically not supposed to go on the kerbs, it's accepted that this is allowed but the fact they are hitting the inside edge of the tyre on the inside of the kerb means they are a whole wheel on the wrong side of the kerb. Perhaps a tyre which isn't so forgiving would stop them pushing the boundaries.

Current car design allows you to clout the rear against a wall fairly hard without breaking anything, but it wasn't always that way - it's really a side-effect of the regulations. It doesn't mean drivers are 'supposed' to be able to hit walls when they go too close and mess it up, if rules change the drivers might have weaker cars and would have to change driving styles accordingly to be more cautious of walls. Equally, weaker tyres might mean drivers have to be more conservative in how they attack the kerbs.

Bollocks, and bollocks thrice more. The kerbs are part of the track, that's why, in using them, they're not censured, as they would, if using a run off area to gain advantage. There shouldn't be an inside to a kerb you mutton, as then it wouldn't be a kerb, it would be a barrier.

The issue here, for me, is that not only were there 4 delaminations, or blow outs, but at least 3 more in the race, that happened on the way into the pits, with both Rosberg and Alonso having tyres blow out too. Then we have the other ones over the whole weekend. You have to have a tyre that is safe, for a blowout at 190mph, as happened today, is completely unacceptable.

The point about having weaker cars, would lead to more deaths. And you're also wrong about them hitting walls; Brundle was saying the other day, that having walls stopped them taking liberties, and that the drivers were only taking liberties when they could e.g. when there were large run off areas which don't punish going into them 10 mph too fast.

The tyres failed today, on one of the circuits with the highest speed, and with the car at load. Imagine the carnage if this happened at Eau at Spa, with no run off area; someone could die.

[VectraMan]

Bollocks, and bollocks thrice more.

WHS. They're not meant to go on the kerbs? It's the normal racing line in most cases.

The tyres failed today, on one of the circuits with the highest speed, and with the car at load. Imagine the carnage if this happened at Eau at Spa, with no run off area; someone could die.

Yes it occurred to me about Eau Rouge. This whole thing reminded me of the Indianapolis debacle; I hope we don't but you can imagine events getting cancelled for safety reasons if the issue continues, and Spa would be the obvious one.

However, Pirelli wanted to return to more expensive but stronger kevlar belted tyres for Canada, because of the tyre failures in earlier races, and three of the teams (Lotus, Force India and ?) blocked the move. But I think after today it'll be impossible for anyone to object.

[Old Hack]

WHS. They're not meant to go on the kerbs? It's the normal racing line in most cases.

Yes it occurred to me about Eau Rouge. This whole thing reminded me of the Indianapolis debacle; I hope we don't but you can imagine events getting cancelled for safety reasons if the issue continues, and Spa would be the obvious one.

However, Pirelli wanted to return to more expensive but stronger kevlar belted tyres for Canada, because of the tyre failures in earlier races, and three of the teams (Lotus, Force India and ?) blocked the move. But I think after today it'll be impossible for anyone to object.

What worries me, is that the Kevlar banded ones, were designed to stop delaminations, but these were blow outs, proper job blow outs. As Whitmarsh said yesterday too, Cars have been driving over these kerbs for the past 60 years with no ill effect. Talking of Kerbs, there was one in Turkey that was renowned as a suspension killer, so the drivers didn't use that kerb, apart from massa who twice destroyed his suspension on it, which kind of points to agreeing with Brundle.

I actually think they'll revert to 2012 tyres, which will be incredibly interesting, given RBR's performance with them (as well as Mclarens to be fair) and at the time the Mercs are proving to be, at least, the match for RBR....

Be an interesting race weekend in Germany next week.

[VectraMan]

What worries me, is that the Kevlar banded ones, were designed to stop delaminations, but these were blow outs, proper job blow outs.

But surely it's much the same thing. What was happening yesterday was the whole band of the tyre was being dumped on the road, steel belt and all, and if that was stronger it would stay attached to the wheel even if it suddenly deflates. Again part of that thing called "engineering" that F1 is meant to excel at, is looking at the way something fails, and clearly it's not acceptable that it should fail in that way. I'm sure Pirelli can and do simulate a 200mph blow out in a lab.

But I am not a tyre construction expert, obviously.

The interesting thing is that none of them failed under heavy load. They were all on the straight, except Massa who was turning left (where left rear would be unloaded).

Maybe it is all this simple:

BBC Sport - F1 British Grand Prix: Did this kerb cause Silverstone tyre chaos?

I think whatever happens, it'll mean more durable tyres and that'll hand the championship to Vettel again. Alonso has already been complaining that Pirelli's more conservative choice of tyres (i.e. hard and medium for Silverstone) is favouring his rival.

[Old Hack]

I think whatever happens, it'll mean more durable tyres and that'll hand the championship to Vettel again. Alonso has already been complaining that Pirelli's more conservative choice of tyres (i.e. hard and medium for Silverstone) is favouring his rival.

I agree with Anderson. You should not have lips on kerbs, or they are no longer kerbs when they are like that.

The previous issue was delamination, with the whole tread coming away, like a blanket. What we saw yesterday, on at least 8 cars, was an explosion, which are different, as the energy dissipates differently. Alonso admits to tulipting himself when Perez's wheel went off, as there were shards of rubber coated metal shooting everywhere, and we could have had another Fillipe Massa moment. It will be interesting to see how they react.

I also think stronger tyres do not necessarily, hand the championship to Vettel, for if Hamilton had not had his issue yesterday, I am utterly convinced, that he would have beaten Vettel on merit. I think, if anything, this makes Mercedes stronger, as their one lap pace is phenomenal, and if they get harder tyres still, then they can utilise that pace for longer. I think it actually tees Mercedes up for the WDC and WCC and Webber will not be doing Vettel any favours.

Interesting times. I am quite happy to be able to watch the fastest cars, actually drive as fast as they can, for that's what motorsport is all about, especially F1, the so called pinnacle.