Hurrah for the Blackshirts - favourite Daily Mail stories

[Old Greg]

What was the date of that article in 1938? Was is before or after Kristallnacht? In any case, the Nuremberg laws had been passed in 1935 and the bombing of Guernica by the luftwaffe was in 1937, so it must have been quite clear by then that those refugees were fleeing a rather unpleasant regime.

And your point is?

[Mich the Tester]

And your point is?

No point, a question.

[EternalOptimist]

What was the date of that article in 1938? Was is before or after Kristallnacht? In any case, the Nuremberg laws had been passed in 1935 and the bombing of Guernica by the luftwaffe was in 1937, so it must have been quite clear by then that those refugees were fleeing a rather unpleasant regime.

probably fleeing after the Anshluss rather than anything else

[Old Greg]

No point, a question.

I believe the Daily Mail correspondent wrote that Guernica was staged by communists and anarchists.

I don't have a date for the article.

[vetran]

hindsight is a wonderful thing

36 Questions About the Holocaust - Simon Wiesenthal Center Multimedia Learning Center

American immigration policy. Even the relatively small quotas of visas which existed were often not filled, although the number of applicants was usually many times the number of available places. Conferences held in Evian, France (1938) and Bermuda (1943) to solve the refugee problem did not contribute to a solution. At the former, the countries invited by the United States and Great Britain were told that no country would be asked to change its immigration laws. Moreover, the British agreed to participate only if Palestine were not considered. At Bermuda, the delegates did not deal with the fate of those still in Nazi hands, but rather with those who had already escaped to neutral lands. Practical measures which could have aided in the rescue of Jews included the following:

Permission for temporary admission of refugees
Relaxation of stringent entry requirements
Frequent and unequivocal warnings to Germany and local populations all over Europe that those participating in the annihilation of Jews would be held strictly accountable
Bombing the death camp at Auschwitz

when I read questions 17-21 it becomes obvious around 1938 it was starting to come out that instead of some official racism (Think Zimbabwe with the farm seizures or India / Dubai with their business ownership) it was actually genocide (just like Sadam undertook against the Kurds and was kept hidden for a decade).

We forget that back then news was heavily censored both in Germany & UK (using methods such as assassination and theories such as Eugenics were very popular in the western world. In 70+ years attitudes have changed for the better.

We look back to decisions about Palestine & India's partitioning and think - why???

look at this way at least we had moved on from shooting fuzzy - wuzzies and firing them out of cannons by the outbreak of WWII and after the war we spearheaded the formation of the Human rights laws that frustrate the mail so much.

I wasn't born them but I don't remember of hearing of million plus marches against the murder of the jews like we had for the Iraq war. The people did not know.

I suspect they thought the Jews were in work camps like Stalins. Every account I have read of discovering the work camps by troops includes comments of surprise at the sheer scale.

They didn't know and the fascists were making the trains run on time. We weren't at war with Germany, Spain was tearing itself apart.

[Mich the Tester]

hindsight is a wonderful thing

36 Questions About the Holocaust - Simon Wiesenthal Center Multimedia Learning Center



when I read questions 17-21 it becomes obvious around 1938 it was starting to come out that instead of some official racism (Think Zimbabwe with the farm seizures or India / Dubai with their business ownership) it was actually genocide (just like Sadam undertook against the Kurds and was kept hidden for a decade).

We forget that back then news was heavily censored both in Germany & UK (using methods such as assassination and theories such as Eugenics were very popular in the western world. In 70+ years attitudes have changed for the better.

We look back to decisions about Palestine & India's partitioning and think - why???

look at this way at least we had moved on from shooting fuzzy - wuzzies and firing them out of cannons by the outbreak of WWII and after the war we spearheaded the formation of the Human rights laws that frustrate the mail so much.

I wasn't born them but I don't remember of hearing of million plus marches against the murder of the jews like we had for the Iraq war. The people did not know.

I suspect they thought the Jews were in work camps like Stalins. Every account I have read of discovering the work camps by troops includes comments of surprise at the sheer scale.

They didn't know and the fascists were making the trains run on time. We weren't at war with Germany, Spain was tearing itself apart.

Wir haben es nicht gewußt.

[OwlHoot]

hindsight is a wonderful thing

36 Questions About the Holocaust - Simon Wiesenthal Center Multimedia Learning Center



when I read questions 17-21 it becomes obvious around 1938 it was starting to come out that instead of some official racism (Think Zimbabwe with the farm seizures or India / Dubai with their business ownership) it was actually genocide (just like Sadam undertook against the Kurds and was kept hidden for a decade).

We forget that back then news was heavily censored both in Germany & UK (using methods such as assassination and theories such as Eugenics were very popular in the western world. In 70+ years attitudes have changed for the better.

We look back to decisions about Palestine & India's partitioning and think - why???

look at this way at least we had moved on from shooting fuzzy - wuzzies and firing them out of cannons by the outbreak of WWII and after the war we spearheaded the formation of the Human rights laws that frustrate the mail so much.

I wasn't born them but I don't remember of hearing of million plus marches against the murder of the jews like we had for the Iraq war. The people did not know.

I suspect they thought the Jews were in work camps like Stalins. Every account I have read of discovering the work camps by troops includes comments of surprise at the sheer scale.

They didn't know and the fascists were making the trains run on time. We weren't at war with Germany, Spain was tearing itself apart.

The British knew about the planned Final Solution in 1938, but they couldn't do much at the time because the info had been obtained by decrypting Nazi messages, and the survival of the UK depended on keeping this ability secret.

But the British did arrange the assassination of Reinhard Heydrich, the chief architect of the plans and someone who was tipped as Hitler's successor, and was every bit as bad as him if not worse (in that he was thought to lack Adolf's vulnerability to being wound up into an enraged state where he might do something stupid!)

[vetran]

Wir haben es nicht gewußt.

we aren't talking about a town 3Km away in 1944 after years of machine gun fire and belching smoke. We are talking about a newspaper thousands of miles away in 1938.

Are you saying that British & American intelligence knew that millions of Jews were being murdered in 1938? In which case many of their actions seem very odd in that context.

[Mich the Tester]

Are you saying that British & American intelligence knew that millions of Jews were being murdered in 1938? In which case many of their actions seem very odd in that context.

No, but a newspaper with correspondents all over Europe would surely have had some information that people were going missing in Germany, many of those people were Jews, and there was a disturbing pattern of events throughout Europe that could at the very least have led the Wail to reserve judgment on the refugees.

[Old Greg]

A bit off topic, because not a Daily Mail story, but instead a personal telegram from Lord Rothermere, which may help to clarify the Mail's position on Jewish refugees:

“My dear Fuhrer, everyone in England is profoundly moved by the bloodless solution to the Czechoslovakian problem. People not so much concerned with territorial readjustment as with dread of another war with its accompanying bloodbath. Frederick the Great was a great popular figure. I salute your Excellency’s star, which rises higher and higher.” Lord Rothermere, 1 October 1938