Really very serious charges for Menezes officers

[NickIT]

Actually no, the guys death sentence was signed by the islamic terrorists who spontaneously detonated on the 7th of July.

Mailman

If you want to play that game you may as well blame the 9/11 terrorists.

[DaveB]

If you want to play that game you may as well blame the 9/11 terrorists.

If you want to play that game then you may as well blame American foreign policy in the Middle East.

Rince and repeat Ad Nauseam

[shaunbhoy]

Blame Menezes himself. He was here illegally, had he not been he would be alive and well now. We simply cannot expect our police officers to think for themselves on their salaries.

[NickIT]

If you want to play that game then you may as well blame American foreign policy in the Middle East.

Rince and repeat Ad Nauseam

Operation Kratos rose out of the aftermath of the 9/11 terror attacks.

Not before.

[BobTheCrate]

No, BUT there were witnesses who said he had and he was wearing a thick jacket AND they had seen a bomb belt and wires.

Again, the witness statements you're relying upon were those taken by the Police immediately after the shooting (not before). It is perfectly understandable that unsuspecting witnesses would associate a plain clothed pistol weilding, jacketed man jumping the barriers as being the suspect.

The Police knew those witnesses were referring to one of their own, not Menezes, but only conceeded that once challenged by CCTV footage. (Which they tried but failed to suppress)

Then there were the witnesses on the train.

If the Police acted properly given the situation, why did they lie about so many aspects leading up to the shooting ?

"Menezes was acting suspiciously wearing a thick jacket in hot weather." They'd been observing him since he emerged from his flat. They knew he wasn't. Clearly they lied. Why ?

"The suspect failed to stop when challenged by armed Police officers". Again they lied. Why ?

"Witnesses saw the suspect jumping the barriers in the station". The Police knew those witnesses were reporting one of their own, but deliberately perpetuated those witness accounts they knew to be wrong. Why ?

Then it emerged the Police subsequently attempted to doctor incident reports. Why ?

I think they lied because they knew they'd acted in an unacceptably negligent fashion and wanted to deflect attention away from that.

This is one of the reasons I don't 'assume' that the officers deployed were necessarily that 'highly trained' at all.

With the suspect's hands, arms and legs all pinned down, only wearing a flimsy T-shirt. ? And then to shoot him at point blank range umpteen times.

Either that was the result of an execution (as per the orders from the top), or it was the action of one or two over excited, not so highly trained officers after all.

The first explanation is compelling. Time and again we hear Police acknowledgment that the moment Menezes entered the train station his fate was sealed.

The Police acknowledge their orders were shoot to kill. It's the no exceptions -even if you find the suspect to pose no threat bit I take exception to.

[DaveB]

Operation Kratos rose out of the aftermath of the 9/11 terror attacks.

Not before.

There is a widely held school of thought that the World Trade center attacks came about as a response to American foriegn policy in the Middle East. In particular the Palestine issue, American attempts to excert influence over the Middle East political arena, Americas support of Israel and the American sponsored invasion of Afganistan.

As you then say, Operation Kratos - the Met. Police shoot to kill policy, arose as a response to the World Trade Center attack.

The London Bombings are believed to have a been a response to the "War on Terror" and Britans involvement in the 2nd Iraq War and subsequent occupation, itself a response to the World Trade Center attack.

[NickIT]

There is a widely held school of thought that the World Trade center attacks came about as a response to American foriegn policy in the Middle East. In particular the Palestine issue, American attempts to excert influence over the Middle East political arena, Americas support of Israel and the American sponsored invasion of Afganistan.

As you then say, Operation Kratos - the Met. Police shoot to kill policy, arose as a response to the World Trade Center attack.

The London Bombings are believed to have a been a response to the "War on Terror" and Britans involvement in the 2nd Iraq War and subsequent occupation, itself a response to the World Trade Center attack.

American foreign policy has been dicking around iwith the Mid East since the end of WW2.

Had there been no attack on the US there would not have been a Operation Kratos.

[The Lone Gunman]

Oh dear Oh dear Oh dear..... when is the next issue of gullibles travels going to be finished postie?

Witness statements are notoriously off target, ask any copper.
A cop with an ear piece and body armour probably looks like most peoples image of a terrorist.

We are not questioning what the witnesses saw, the cops didn't base their decision on witness statements. They had followed him from his house so they knew what jacket he was wearing, how else would the second set of police known who to follow, they werent following a guy in a puffer jacket were they?
When they were kneeling on his chest, arms and legs they would have known he was in no way a threat.
They were either caught up in the moment or they were following orders.

[bogeyman]

Anyone who has worked with the Police (or indeed been in the plod) will know that there are countless bang to right cases which are dropped by the CPS for reasons such as 'not in the public interest' etc etc etc.

While this is a very high profile example it is by no means the only example. Bear that in mind when you cry 'whitewash'...

You're right. I have a cousin in the met and he tells me all kinds of horror stories about major crimes that go unpunished because the CPS can't get its act together, and basically lacks the will to exist.

[DaveB]

American foreign policy has been dicking around iwith the Mid East since the end of WW2.

Had there been no attack on the US there would not have been a Operation Kratos.

Had the Americans not been "...dicking around in the Middle East.." there would have been no attack on the WTC.