BN66/S58 update

[cailin maith]

Why is it morally wrong to try and pay as little tax as possibly legally, most contractors do this, they pay 20-25% when if they were a permie they would be paying 35-45%. Some people paid as little as 5% which was entirely legal at the time. HMRC are entitled to close this loophole and go for anyone still trying to use it. Retrospectively applying this is totally unfair.

WHS.... actually, I've no idea if you are a he or a she! Sorry.

[d000hg]

I still stand by my claim that there is no moral duty to pay tax. Only a logical necessity and legal requirement.

[ZARDOZ]

I still stand by my claim that there is no moral duty to pay tax. Only a logical necessity and legal requirement.

Yep, and they have a legal requirement to pay what is due and that's not 3.5%.

HMRC were sniffing into these schemes in 2002. http://notoretrotax.org.uk/public-do...Issue%2063.pdf

That was the time to get out. As for retrospection, what is the difference here to someone thinking they were outside IR35 for several years and then subsequently being found to be inside? Any sensible person what have set aside monies for such eventuality, not spunked it up the wall and burried their head in the sand.

[AtW]

I still stand by my claim that there is no moral duty to pay tax. Only a logical necessity and legal requirement.

I recommend you try to claim that you are a "Foreign Diplomat" and "Fiduciary of God" and therefore do not have to pay tax.

You can top it up by claiming that there was no income tax and self assessment mentioned in Magna Carta.

[tomtomagain]

I still stand by my claim that there is no moral duty to pay tax. Only a logical necessity and legal requirement.

Yeah the Greeks thought the same too. It didn't work out for them particularly well.

Tax is your contribution to civil society and contributing to the society you live in is a moral obligation.

[d000hg]

Yep, and they have a legal requirement to pay what is due and that's not 3.5%.

But it was legal at the time, just as it's currently legal for Amazon to pay all their CT/VAT in Luxembourg or whatever.

I recommend you try to claim that you are a "Foreign Diplomat" and "Fiduciary of God" and therefore do not have to pay tax.

You can top it up by claiming that there was no income tax and self assessment mentioned in Magna Carta.

Yeah the Greeks thought the same too. It didn't work out for them particularly well.

Tax is your contribution to civil society and contributing to the society you live in is a moral obligation.

I make no suggestion people shouldn't pay tax, or should try to evade it. Some countries are really crap at collecting taxes so people get away without paying their legal requirement.

Tax is your legal requirement to public services and so on. Not a moral one - otherwise some people would decide to pay more tax than they are required to. Seems odd everyone decides the moral amount of tax to pay is exactly the same as the basic legal rate. If they drop the personal tax rate 2%, I guess you'd not take advantage because it's morally right to pay what you are now? Or are you saying it's morally right to follow the law?

[proggy]

Yeah the Greeks thought the same too. It didn't work out for them particularly well.

Tax is your contribution to civil society and contributing to the society you live in is a moral obligation.

No one is saying evade tax, a lot of the Greeks evaded tax, but the tax officials there were also corrupt, taking bribes off companies etc. The argument is, we will pay the lowest tax that the law allows, it's called running a business, legally and efficiently.

[AtW]

If they drop the personal tax rate 2%, I guess you'd not take advantage because it's morally right to pay what you are now? Or are you saying it's morally right to follow the law?

If they drop income tax to 2% or 0% then that's what I would pay.

But if the tax rate is 40% then I would not get into contrived schemes that get it down to 2% by totally abusing the spirit of the laws. To me that is tax evasion at its finest, sadly the law does not agree with it in this country.

So legal definition of what tax evasion is should be expanded to cover such artificial schemes whose main objective is to cut tax. It's not just following the rules - it's taking active action to evade tax responsibilities.

This cat and mouse game with pros who find loopholes is costing taxpayer a lot more than it would cost to put makers, promoters and users of such schemes into jail. And if they threaten to move to another country then they can fook right off since they don't pay tax here anyway.

Maybe it's time to start putting signs on doors - "Resident of this house is a tax cheat - police, NHS and others public services will not be provided, please burgle it at your convenience but don't forget to pay capital gains tax on your new stolen property".

[d000hg]

If they drop income tax to 2% or 0% then that's what I would pay.

So you have no morality then, you just follow what the nice MP on TV says?

[ZARDOZ]

You have to laugh at a "Christian" arguing why effectively not contributing to society isn't a moral issue.