LibDems hold Eastleigh, Tories in Third Place after UKIP

[DodgyAgent]

Ronald Reagan didn't have a degree. Controversial, maybe, but far from ineffective in international relations. Just ask the Soviets.

Between him and Maggie they dismantled the USSR and the communist bloc in eastern Europe. Of great annoyance to the lefties

[formant]

And why not NOW? OK, because he's dead, but you are postulating something that's clearly silly; the idea that a man's university education is somehow indicative of his qualities as a leader; it isn't indicative because we can all think of examples of effective leaders without university degrees and we can all think of complete turd-for-brains moron 'leaders' WITH degrees. Now yes, it might come in handy, but it's of no relevance to Mr Farage's complete unsuitability for a job as PM.

Personally I think John Major, on the whole, did a very good job in exceptionally difficult circumstances; he didn't have a degree, but did a lot better than most PMs with easier circumstances.

These days 80% of officer cadets at Sandhurst are university graduates. I think it's safe to call Sandhurst post-18 education, placing it a level above just high school education.
Nothing wrong with Sandhurst these days (although it shouldn't surprise people that I'm not a big fan of the military) - I was referring to the fact that a military background was pretty commonplace for leaders in Churchill's time - just like a university degree is more or less expected of today's leaders. Rightly or wrongly.

[DodgyAgent]

These days 80% of officer cadets at Sandhurst are university graduates. I think it's safe to call Sandhurst post-18 education, placing it a level above just high school education.
Nothing wrong with Sandhurst these days (although it shouldn't surprise people that I'm not a big fan of the military) - I was referring to the fact that a military background was pretty commonplace for leaders in Churchill's time - just like a university degree is more or less expected of today's leaders. Rightly or wrongly.

You wouldn't be a fan of anything that has practical value in enabling you to enjoy the freedom to criticise whoever you wish.

[SupremeSpod]

The problem with PPE, that most people of my class do, is that isn't really that rigorous.

Evidently.

[formant]

You wouldn't be a fan of anything that has practical value in enabling you to enjoy the freedom to criticise whoever you wish.

Christ, it's not like I'd want to get rid of it altogether. I'm not that far on the left, don't worry.

[sasguru]

Evidently.

Quite. That's why I didn't.

[Mich the Tester]

Sorry Formant, but you are on a hiding to nothing with this 'Farage didn't go to higher education' argument. It's not the thing that makes him unsuitable.

Here's a quick list off the top of my head of pretty useful leaders without degrees;

John Major
Winston Churchill
Dwight Eisenhower
Nelson Mandela (did study but failed, possibly due to being politically undermined)

Here's another quick list, this time it's ineffective idiots WITH degrees;

George W Bush
George Bush
Gordon Brown
Mark Rutte (sorry, this is my bugbear at the moment; that man is utterly hopeless)

I'm sure you can list more who do have degrees AND were effective leaders, but the causal link is highly tenuous, and if it really is a major determinant for middle class voting habits then that would go a long way to explaining why so many democracies have had so many utterly mediocre people in government.

[sasguru]

Gordon Brown was the only UK leader to have a PhD, I think? at least in recent times.
In history - he famously said he couldn't do maths. I think we gathered that
And was IMO, the worst leader in the Uk for quite some time.

[formant]

Sorry Formant, but you are on a hiding to nothing with this 'Farage didn't go to higher education' argument. It's not the thing that makes him unsuitable.

You seem to have missed that I already agreed with you on that a few pages ago.

I think when it comes to Farage, I'd take him no more seriously if he was Oxbridge PhD-ed. So along the same lines, the fact that he's had a 'proper job' (to quote DA) isn't helping in the least.

It was DA who suggested we look at Farage's background for credibility. I did, and I didn't find any. I wasn't the one who threw his background into it though.

But rightly or wrongly, voters want overall credibility and representative value in a PM, and someone who brings one or more degrees (alongside their real world experience) is always likely to do better in an election than someone outside of what's now more or less deemed the standard set of qualifications for a political leader.

[Mich the Tester]

But rightly or wrongly, voters want overall credibility and representative value in a leader, and someone who brings one or more degrees (alongside their real world experience) is always likely to do better in an election.

There is no evidence that they do and plenty of evidence to the contrary. See the procession of liars, buffoons and other mediocre people that have found their way into high office since Britain introduced universal suffrage.

Voters want people who reflect their own prejudices. Just occasionally, and possibly by accident, they elect someone with a brain and who either has the prejudices that work OK in the time or is less prejudiced than the public thought.

So, Anti-Europe, blame it all on Jonny Foreigner? Vote UKIP
Lazy git, want to breed 11 kids and get a new council house? Vote Labour.
Hoping for something better but likely to be disappointed? Vote Tory.
Kind of liberal-ish, easy going and fairly sensible, but sadly gullible? Vote Liberal Demoprat.
Chav scum? Vote BNP.