Are we that desperate to get on the housing "ladder"?

[OwlHoot]

God, yes, the house/flat inspections! I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen anywhere other than in the UK. It's utterly ridiculous.

In Switzerland, renters have "exit" inspections before they leave a property, and I gather these are ridiculously fussy and exacting.

The inspector runs their fingers along shelves in search of the faintest trace of dust and so on, like a regimental sergeant major inspecting a barracks in the hope of finding something, anything, to bellow about, although in the inspector's case the slightest imperfection results in a fail which means the renters won't get their deposit back.

[moggy]

Similar thing in Germany - when leaving the property you have to paint everything and quite often sell the next tenant your kitchen or remove your one you put in.

[formant]

Possibly its your choice to smoke, however being a non smoker I notice the minute I go in a smokers house and it lingers in all the soft furnishings forever. So if you have tenant that is a smoker you need to wash or repaint everything 2-3 times. Same for pets. One assumes you don't want this cost taken out of your deposit?

In Germany, the arrangement is usually that you paint/redecorate the place when you move out. That means intermittently you can do whatever you want. That also means that whenever you rent a new place it will have been freshly renovated. So at least as far as painting goes, it's got nothing to do with the landlord. Flooring is the landlords responsibility for common wear and tear over time, but if the tenant is found at fault for major damage it's their responsibility/comes out of their deposit (which is normally as high as 3 months rent). As a tenant you also normally have to give 3 months notice to leave (but can generally line up a new place with that much notice in advance, too). As a landlord you have to give a minimum of 3 months notice, but depending on how long the tenant has been in your flat, you may be legally required to give them a huge lot more notice than that. After the block of flats my grandparents lived in was sold (they'd been renting their flat for over 40 years), they were given three years (!) notice to move out and offered €10k if they left within the next year (they obviously took the cash and moved).

It's a mixture of big housing associations and private landlords there. Both of them are heavily regulated. There are strict limits on the frequency and percentage of rent increases.

So with that level of assurance, I don't find it surprising that a lot of Germans never buy. I doubt that sort of arrangement would ever work out here though - as far as rental goes the UK is too far gone.

[formant]

Similar thing in Germany - when leaving the property you have to paint everything and quite often sell the next tenant your kitchen or remove your one you put in.

Yep - you can also come to an arrangement with your landlord about the kitchen. Some landlords will provide one, many won't. One of my mothers' BTLs had a kitchen initially, but after 10 years there the tenants wanted to get a new one. So they replaced the kitchen at their expense but agreed with my mother that she'll cover half the cost if they move out within the next 5 years.

[formant]

In Switzerland, renters have "exit" inspections before they leave a property, and I gather these are ridiculously fussy and exacting.

The inspector runs their fingers along shelves in search of the faintest trace of dust and so on, like a regimental sergeant major inspecting a barracks in the hope of finding something, anything, to bellow about, although in the inspector's case the slightest imperfection results in a fail which means the renters won't get their deposit back.

Exit inspections/inventory checks are a bit different to having someone come and inspect what's meant to be your home every 3-6 months.

[fullyautomatix]

That is nasty.

What soup said.

Very nasty indeed.

[vetran]

the problem with that is in the UK we quite reasonably concerned that the work is done correctly, having grown up with tenants idea of 'good enough' I am rather pleased that UK landlords require a gas safety certificate & electrical safety.

similar with building regs observance.

possibly the germans are a bit more competent but my experience is many tenants are a danger to themselves if allowed to do anything, and the likelehood is that the bad tenants who do apalling DIY will skip / have to be evicted owing months of rent so the average deposit just about covers a month of back rent.

One of the best was one who painted everything black (and I mean everything, walls, floors, soft furnishings light fittings etc) then skipped owing 2 months rent = a few years gross profit gone.

It used be that tenants had more rights
Sitting tenants | Beingaleaseholder


which meant they paid pitiful rent and it was almost impossible to serve notice.

What normally happened here was a private landlord subsidised their rent for years. Gave up sold cheap with sitting tenants and the new landlords 'vigorously encouraged' the tenants to leave and sold at a profit.

[formant]

the problem with that is in the UK we quite reasonably concerned that the work is done correctly, having grown up with tenants idea of 'good enough' I am rather pleased that UK landlords require a gas safety certificate & electrical safety.

similar with building regs observance.

possibly the germans are a bit more competent but my experience is many tenants are a danger to themselves if allowed to do anything, and the likelehood is that the bad tenants who do apalling DIY will skip / have to be evicted owing months of rent so the average deposit just about covers a month of back rent.

One of the best was one who painted everything black (and I mean everything, walls, floors, soft furnishings light fittings etc) then skipped owing 2 months rent = a few years gross profit gone.

It used be that tenants had more rights
Sitting tenants | Beingaleaseholder

which meant they paid pitiful rent and it was almost impossible to serve notice.

What normally happened here was a private landlord subsidised their rent for years. Gave up sold cheap with sitting tenants and the new landlords 'vigorously encouraged' the tenants to leave and sold at a profit.

I think it's safe to say that German building regs and standards generally exceed those in the UK. Also, the redecorations upon moving out are inspected and need to match the quality of what the tenant got when they took the flat on (so many will just pay for a professional to play it safe). You'll get the odd 'bad egg' tenant anywhere of course. Comes with the landlord territory. And if you want to evict those it's not necessarily easier here than it is in Germany - going down the legal route is a struggle anywhere. A lot of what's done in the UK (the regular flat inspections and the likes) doesn't really do anything to prevent seriously dodgy tenants from doing harm. It just discourages decent people from renting long term, so you become more likely to end up with a crappy/destructive tenant - as the better ones will find a way to buy. :-/

[vetran]

most recent experience I had was moving a friend into a Housing association house.

light switches broken, dodgy plumbing , extractor fan broken -all wear and tear/accidental, drainage in front of door inadequate.

saw all that in 30 minutes. maybe the inspections aren't all that effective.

The thing about 1-2 bad apples is that they can kill the profit for a number of properties.


Both Part P & Corgi forbid signing off other people's work without in progress inspections. This is to stop people using choc blocks to join electric shower cables under the bath behind the bath paneletc. which is apparently quite common. I can't see how the German inspections can achieve a similar level of safety using just visual non invasive inspection.

[CoolCat]

I agree rental agents in the UK are sharks and badly need tough regulation.

I also agree there should be a ready private rental sector, with big reputable organisations entering the market. But this would need the state manipulation and subsidy to housing associations sorting to make it viable.

Would be best to remove the state subsidy from council and housing association houses and give it instead to needy people to spend as they wish. Let them make their own compromises. This would stop the tax payer subsidising large housing estates in areas where all the jobs have long since disappeared for instance.

I am surprised all the pro buying folk are discounting the posibility of a house price crash, which will dramatically change things. The printing money inflationary policys of all current political parties cannot go on forever, at some point interest rates will have to go up and many will be unable to meet their over inflated mortgages. There will be a house price crash, I dont know when but definitely within the next 25 years of a typical mortgage.

House supply is constrained which keeps prices up, that bubble will burst as they will have to free up planning rules to allow more housing to be built for the population rises we are going through.

At the moment I can rent for 900 a month a house worth 300 K, no repairs etc to worry about.

I agree on average buying is the way to go if you can tie yourself to one area but at the moment prices are way overinflated and must crash down at some point - thats the time to buy!

Biggest negatives with owning is being tied to one postcode and in the UK as it works now those schools, that GP, the local nhs hospital, etc. If you rent and the school is rubbish you can move easily.