FAO Brillo and Dallas; endurance training

[Mich the Tester]

1.

technical term for that is bonking

2.

NOOOOOOOooooooooo start small, build and mix it up, same as running really: couple of long ones, couple of short ones, couple of really fast ones and a couple of recovery ones. If you have time to structure - google other forums and training plans. I have an indoor trainer and dvds - because I am soft

3.

To what end, honestly.

OK, let me introduce you to the world of nutrition.

You can be as fancy (Powerade et al.) or tight (jam sandwiches) as you like.

Everyone is different but for me x1 800ml of fluid per hour is normal, after 3 hours if I havent had caffine I'll cry so out come the gels.

You need to find a balance too little food/water and you leave yourself open to long recovery and compromising your immune system or too much food/water and a world of stomach pain and more

First time I was doing 5+ hours on the bike I set my watch to beep every 15 mins: eat or drink something, just a small amount, but get into the habit of putting stuff in. Remember you are not eating/hydrating for now, it takes ~15 mins to hit your legs so dont wait until you are dehydrated before you drink.

A good test I did ages ago was to eat a snickers on an empty stomach and immediately start to run, took 25mins for me to feel the snickers hit my legs - it is like getting a new pair of legs. Play around with it until you find yours. Product wise I aim to get used to what is available on the couse, whatever is being provided I get used to, some delicate souls prefer to carry a days-worth with them - everyone to their own .... and then there is brillo

So I should just mix up the training as I can (sometimes long work days get in the way so I might only have 30 to 40 minutes for a quick ride), make sure I do one long ride at weekends, and then use the bleeper to eat every 15 to 20 minutes and have a swig of fluid? Perhaps a few biscuits and a snickers per hour? According to the calculators on the internet I'm burning 1200 to 1300 calories per hour at 30+ kph given that I'm still not exactly a waif, and i can't imagine stuffing that much food in every hour unless I take some gels. How many calories can I reasonably expect to take on per hour while riding without getting nauseous or using up all my air to digest the food ?

[BrilloPad]

Sorry but I am not good at training regimes - I just tend to do what I feel like. Barley might be able to help - its worth dropping him a PM.

I just tend to do longer rides as often as I can. Was meant to do one tomorrow but I am ill.

I have heard it said that training with no carbs helps endurance.

Perhaps the biggest tip I can offer is "carb loading" (one I got from Dallas). 3 days before the event train once a day. Sports drink - wait 30 minutes. 10 minute warm up. 3 minute sprint. It encourages the muscles to load carbs - its where they are needed. After a couple of days you might feel a bit aggressive - but thats the point isn't it.

[Mich the Tester]

Right then, the cycling club are doing a 2 hrs plus ride tomorrow, so I'll go with them; there are enough points on the route to shorten it and ride home after a couple of hours, but I guess the secret is to keep eating and drinking little bits every 15 minutes instead of the big swig of iso-gator-something-ade and energy bar every 40 to 45 minutes that rugby conditioned me to do.

Energy bars, gels or cookies?

Bucket of pasta afterwards or my favourite stewed beef and mash?

Sunday 30 minutes or so in a low gear to recover?

Does this sound like a plan?

[Dallas]

1. [QUOTE=Mich the Tester;1676079]So I should just mix up the training as I can (sometimes long work days get in the way so I might only have 30 to 40 minutes for a quick ride), make sure I do one long ride at weekends, and then use the bleeper to eat every 15 to 20 minutes and have a swig of fluid? QUOTE]

Depends. Look at the course you are going to do; considering distance and climbing. When is the event - what month? Then factor in heat impact and comfort. I work backwards from there.
My next big one is beginning of July, so hot, and with 6 climbs that i know and have done before. So for me at the min my focus is 50:50 volume and intensity. Over easter I go on a camp to see how I fare and what I need to do to bridge any gaps to get me to July. I am a biig unit so for me it is usually hill reps and longer rides - eventually building the hill reps into the big climbs and wrapping your nutrition around that.

2.

Perhaps a few biscuits and a snickers per hour? According to the calculators on the internet I'm burning 1200 to 1300 calories per hour at 30+ kph given that I'm still not exactly a waif, and i can't imagine stuffing that much food in every hour unless I take some gels. How many calories can I reasonably expect to take on per hour while riding without getting nauseous or using up all my air to digest the food ?

Nairns cranberry oatcakes are cheap, if a bit dry, regarding air to eat - i would take half an oatcake per 15mins not a full one, 15mins = 1 mouthfull not a meal. According to your calories, yep you are a big one too - I would aim for 600 replacement, you are not replacing 1:1 on calories. Thats is approx x4 gels and a bottle (depending what it is and concentrate) - pretty similar to me. But you can play with bars and other stuff as well.

[doodab]

So if I do 2.5 hours this saturday and then 3 next weekend with riding a few times when I get the chance in between, and then try to add 30 minutes each weekend plus interval work on weekdays am I on the right track?

Yes basically although I'd make every 4th week an "easy" week and back off a bit. Also pay attention to nutrition as others have said. One important thing is recovery eating i.e. stuffing your face with lots of complex carbs as soon as possible after you get off the bike. The sooner you eat them the better your body processes them, the better you will recover, and the better prepared you will be for the next session. I swear by bananas and powerade personally but each to their own.

[BrilloPad]

Right then, the cycling club are doing a 2 hrs plus ride tomorrow, so I'll go with them; there are enough points on the route to shorten it and ride home after a couple of hours, but I guess the secret is to keep eating and drinking little bits every 15 minutes instead of the big swig of iso-gator-something-ade and energy bar every 40 to 45 minutes that rugby conditioned me to do.

Energy bars, gels or cookies?

Bucket of pasta afterwards or my favourite stewed beef and mash?

Sunday 30 minutes or so in a low gear to recover?

Does this sound like a plan?

You certainly want pasta tonight. Personally I try to eat normally afterwards.

[Dallas]

Right then, the cycling club are doing a 2 hrs plus ride tomorrow, so I'll go with them; there are enough points on the route to shorten it and ride home after a couple of hours, but I guess the secret is to keep eating and drinking little bits every 15 minutes instead of the big swig of iso-gator-something-ade and energy bar every 40 to 45 minutes that rugby conditioned me to do.

Energy bars, gels or cookies?

Bucket of pasta afterwards or my favourite stewed beef and mash?

Sunday 30 minutes or so in a low gear to recover?

Does this sound like a plan?

Done this before? 100% selfsufficient (layers, tools and food) and bike in good nick or you'll delay the ride, cyclists dont like that.

Head for majority protein after, please ask your other guys what stretching they do and copy (ie roller, ITB, hammies and back). Your sunday, my mum can do better than that, looks pointless? 15mins out then turn back? If sat is a 2 hour consistent undulating pace (cyclists usually chatter the whole way) then make sunday your interval and stretch some more day - or yoga, swim, run, row, corework ... crosstraining is not to be sniffed at

[BrilloPad]

I heard the best way of building up endurance for cycling is to satisfy the dutch ladies volleyball team twice. If you aren't up to it and need a second just let me know.

<cue abusive email from Dallas>

[Mich the Tester]

[QUOTE=Dallas;1676126]1.

So I should just mix up the training as I can (sometimes long work days get in the way so I might only have 30 to 40 minutes for a quick ride), make sure I do one long ride at weekends, and then use the bleeper to eat every 15 to 20 minutes and have a swig of fluid? QUOTE]

Depends. Look at the course you are going to do; considering distance and climbing. When is the event - what month? Then factor in heat impact and comfort. I work backwards from there.
My next big one is beginning of July, so hot, and with 6 climbs that i know and have done before. So for me at the min my focus is 50:50 volume and intensity. Over easter I go on a camp to see how I fare and what I need to do to bridge any gaps to get me to July. I am a biig unit so for me it is usually hill reps and longer rides - eventually building the hill reps into the big climbs and wrapping your nutrition around that.

2.

Nairns cranberry oatcakes are cheap, if a bit dry, regarding air to eat - i would take half an oatcake per 15mins not a full one, 15mins = 1 mouthfull not a meal. According to your calories, yep you are a big one too - I would aim for 600 replacement, you are not replacing 1:1 on calories. Thats is approx x4 gels and a bottle (depending what it is and concentrate) - pretty similar to me. But you can play with bars and other stuff as well.

THX, yep I was down to 15 stone having stopped playing 18 months ago; peak fitness for rugby I was 16 stone with about 12% body fat. Unfortunately I went to Australia on holiday and seem to have got close to 16 stone again in the last few weeks despite blasting all the hotel exercise bikes to tulip in bursts of 3 and 4 km time trial type sessions. But on monday evening I rode the real bike again for about an hour and felt incredibly fit as though nothing could stop me and probably rode faster than I've ever ridden for an hour even though I've put on a few pounds and have suddenly developed a strange thing called a 'belly'; I just didn't have my speedo working as the battery had died, but I could feel the speed and felt like I could do another hour at the same speed. Then tuesday morning I was completely and utterly shagged out, so tuesday I didn't train. Wednesday evening I did some leg weights and core training as there was black ice outside and even I'm not stupid enough to risk that. Yesterday rest, perhaps this evening a quick 30 minute blast and then tomorrow an endurance ride with the club. I really want to get down to 14 stone, which is still too much for endurance cycling up and down hills but it's a start. My problem though is that I tend to build muscle mass very quickly from high intesity work and could get chubby very quickly if I don't do lots of aerobic work, so when the roads are unrideable I can end up getting big again.

[Mich the Tester]

How much of this endurance thing (all day riding) is actually genetic? I know that I'm naturally a sprint/explosive strength type; obviously rugby involves speed and strength and at school and college I was good at 100 metres and chucking stuff (discus, shot and so on), but useless at any race where you couldn't see the end from the start; although perhaps at the time I was just too bloody lazy to run a long way. I didn't understand what other people found difficult about running fast until I heard the explanation about muscle fibre types and that sprinters have more type IIb fibres, but I always thought that basically 'speed is natural but endurance can be trained'. I know that endurance athletes struggle at speed events, but am I at a disadvantage being a sprinter type adapting to endurance?

In know loads of theory about training for strength and speed, but this endurance thingy is a bit new to me.