Tax Hell: 73% rates cripple UK families, killing 'aspiration nation'

[formant]

Of course it's not 'all the guy's fault'. But the standard rhetoric seems to be that it's 'all the woman's fault', which is equally ridiculous.

Blaming societies ills on 'single mothers' is absolving the man of any responsibility in the process.

I suspect that the majority of the children of single parents are either a) conceived whilst in a stable relationship with both partners complicit in bringing the child into the world or b) conceived within a casual relationship where neither partner particularly bothered with ensuring effective contraceptive was used.

I think men get enough of the blame in that very standad rhetoric. And given that women have more choice in the matter, I do think they bear more responsibility.

Going back to how this exchange started, however, my grief isn't so much with the single mothers, but with the choices men and women make in relationships that lead to unemployable single mothers once the relationship fails (and most of relationships fail). That's down to all those women (and it is generally women) who are happy to take several years off or never even set out to have a career because they're happy living off their partners income. And of course the men who enable this lifestyle choice. It's all sweet while they're together, but once the couple separates it leaves countless women with few options outside of benefit-smooching.

The point of this rant being that you get a lot of right-wingers whingeing about benefit-leeches, while hailing the traditionalist family model of the single-earner. Yet somehow people don't make the connection that the latter is precisely what sets many women out to become part of the former sooner or later.

[mudskipper]

I think men get enough of the blame in that very standad rhetoric.

My beef was with this comment:

Single mums breeding kids with different men are the problem and is the reason for breakdown of the society.

Consider the equally one sided:

Men going around casually shagging women without responsibility for the consequences are the problem and is the reason for breakdown of the society.

And the point I was trying to make is that it takes two to make a baby.

[AtW]

Just saw this, disgusting.

Tax Hell: 73% rates cripple UK families, killing 'aspiration nation' - YouTube

It's on RussiaToday - modern equivalent of Pravda newspaper printed in USSR to peddle Soviet propaganda.

[doodab]

It's on RussiaToday - modern equivalent of Pravda newspaper printed in USSR to peddle Soviet propaganda.

So this is designed to persuade Russians to either come here and sponge or stay where they are?

I'm buggered if I can work out which.

[AtW]

So this is designed to persuade Russians to either come here and sponge or stay where they are? I'm buggered if I can work out which.

Russsian income tax rate is flat 13%, around 9% on dividends and long term capital gains.

The idea is to show how tulip West is and how great Putin's rule is.

Of course this hides around 33-35% NI equivalent in Russia that companies have to pay, where as workers only pay 13% income tax - combined it's around 50% anyway.

[rambaugh]

No - they're counting benefits you don't get which you would be 'entitled' to if you weren't working as 'tax'.

So - £750 pm housing benefit, £500 jobseekers = £1200 "tax".

Ridiculous. I'm a strong believer in working people being better off than those on benefits, but to encourage the mentality that you're somehow losing benefits you're entitled to by working is just stupid.

On the surface of it the report is an unfair and lurid assessment of the taxation system. After a bit of research it turns out the report is based on the marginal tax effect above the 25.7K threshold and for someone under a set of specific circumstances.

The fact is someone who earns say £25700 would get approximately £8000 tax free and pay 32% in tax and NI, giving an approx net income of £19500.

The 73% marginal rate is for money earned above £25700. What the report is saying is that if you look at net income, including benefits, for every extra £1000 earned they would only get a net increase of £270, due to the reduction in benefits when earning in excess of £25700.

[AtW]

The fact is someone who earns say £25700 would get approximately £8000 tax free and pay 32% in tax and NI, giving an approx net income of £19500.

You are forgetting Employer NIC, which is effectively paid by employee.

The reality is that everybody in this country who works and earns at least average salary in effect is a high tax payer with tax rate >40%.

[minestrone]

Not much truth. It's £42K.

40% starts at 32k from 2013-2014.

[rambaugh]

You are forgetting Employer NIC, which is effectively paid by employee.

The reality is that everybody in this country who works and earns at least average salary in effect is a high tax payer with tax rate >40%.

Yeah, and as they have done in this dodgy report, which you presented to us in your original post, you could say effectively this and effectively that however the reality and fact of the matter is that someone who earns about 25K will take home approximately £19500 after all taxes.

[AtW]

Yeah, and as they have done in this dodgy report, which you presented to us in your original post, you could say effectively this and effectively that however the reality and fact of the matter is that someone who earns about 25K will take home approximately £19500 after all taxes.

I did not watch that Soviet propaganda piece in full (I had late lunch just before it).

I think employer NIC should be factored into any direct taxation calculation because it happens at the source right at the time when Income tax and NIC are taken.

Taking somebody on 25k pa gives 19.5k net in hand, so thats 78% or 22% tax share.

But employer pays extra £2.5k, so in reality it's 27.5k wage with still 19.5k net paid - 71% with 29% taken in tax.

There are other taxes of course - indirect taxation contibutes a lot these days, it's reasonable to look at household income/expenditure to calculate true taxes paid by people in different bands rather than look at headline rate.

I have no doubt that majority of money earned by people are taken back as taxes (direct and indirect) by the state and some high earners can easily see 70% of their money paid back in tax.