On religion

[doomage]

However. the same evidence that convinces one person to believe - or that their faith has a good intellectual foundation - convinces another not to believe. For example, some people look at the amazing way the immune system works, and see that as evidence of god. Dawkins sees the same evidence and believes it points to god not existing.

It's all a matter of choice.

So what should be taught in schools? The immune system is not evidence of God, it is evidence of ignorance about science and evolution. This is a worse thing than ignorance about religion imho.

[RasputinDude]

Which of course is the whole and only point of religion, control. Amazes me that there are still people who havent understood and still believe.

Others would beg to differ. I choose to be a member of my church, as I choose to be a follower or the way. I do not feel coerced or controlled in any way, shape or form.

Ultimately, if I'm wrong then so what? I will still be a much better person than I was when I was an atheist and I am more pleasant, gentle, understanding and graceful to others. I am also much happier; so if I'm wrong and have made a little bit of a fool of myself, then I think I'm still quids in as it were.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

The big point that your missing here is that most people follow the faith, not the letter, which makes many arguments about god not existing redundant and very hard to argue against

IMO having faith blindly without logic is delusion. Only when you match faith with science/logic do you start to get somewhere..... So I kind of agree with you there.

[sasguru]

I will still be a much better person than I was when I was an atheist .

Why?

[Platypus]

The God conveyed by religion is one who gives people chance after chance and continuously offers them the ability to come towards Him. It is those who turn away again and again, ignore His signs and chose ignorance who earn His wrath.

Have you even read the Old Testament?

The God portrayed by the nicey nicey modern C of E church is indeed as you describe.

[d000hg]

I have met such people, they appear pious to the casual observer, but are in fact mean spirited, nasty and the whole range of unpleasant characteristics.

Not all, of course, but in my experience, it's about 50/50.

Very true. Jesus himself lambasted those who made a big show about their praying or their works in order for human recognition.

[d000hg]

Have you even read the Old Testament?

The God portrayed by the nicey nicey modern C of E church is indeed as you describe.

No it isn't. The God portrayed in the New Testament is though. If you're thinking "nicey nicey CofE" is the same as the New Testament then you're hardly in a position to criticise someone else's biblical knowledge.

And yes in fact the OT does show God as continually forgiving his peoples' wanton disobedience, time and time again. Exodus, Judges, Kings for a start cover this. Not to mention after 5000 years, he was still giving them chances by sending Jesus.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

So the first born sons of Egypt earned God's fair and just wrath? I find this so puzzling.

You see the problem with that argument is you are only looking at part of the picture. You need to complete the picture of existence that religion paints...

1) God grants free-will
2) Those children are innocent and sinless
3) existence does not end at death
4) Those born did not earn God's wrath - back to justice and fairness

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Have you even read the Old Testament?

The God portrayed by the nicey nicey modern C of E church is indeed as you describe.

I am not a believer in the modern version of the old testament though I do believe it to originally be correct.

[speling bee]

You see the problem with that argument is you are only looking at part of the picture. You need to complete the picture of existence that religion paints...

1) God grants free-will
2) Those children are innocent and sinless
3) existence does not end at death
4) Those born did not earn God's wrath - back to justice and fairness

So child murder is ok?