On religion

[Cliphead]

Josephus mentions Jesus. He is a Jewish historian and not contemporary, but is outside of the early church accounts.

The problem with expecting Roman records is that Roman historical documentation is quite Rome-centric, so there is unlikely to be any extant account of a prophetic /minor rebellious figure in an outlying province.

Some evidence is not zero evidence. It is zero proof.

Hardly a credible source even if the writings are genuine. So much has been embellished from the early church onwards, questionable authenticity and so on it's just so much froth and that goes for the bible and gospels.

[minestrone]

Jesus existed, the religion started somewhere and if there was any doubt the Romans would have documented the doubts, also the jewish religion, which had some contact with him, would have recorded doubts.

If he was just some jumped up lefty rabble rouser or the son of god is open to debate

[speling bee]

Hardly a credible source even if the writings are genuine. So much has been embellished from the early church onwards, questionable authenticity and so on it's just so much froth and that goes for the bible and gospels.

I agree it is embellished and we probably know little about Jesus. The sources aren't great but they are not the worst.

It seems less likely to me that the early church and scriptures were built around a complete fiction than around a real person.

[speling bee]

Jesus existed, the religion started somewhere and if there was any doubt the Romans would have documented the doubts, also the jewish religion, which had some contact with him, would have recorded doubts.

If he was just some jumped up lefty rabble rouser or the son of god is open to debate

Well that is overstating the case. Any documentation is unlikely to have survived.

[xoggoth]

Can't see the relevance of discussing Christ's existence. Ron Hubbard was undoubtably a real person, does that add even one iota to the arguments in favour of Scientology? If he had never existed and somebody else's ideas had been wrongly ascribed to him, would that prove Thetans do not exist?

[Cliphead]

Can't see the relevance of discussing Christ's existence. Ron Hubbard was undoubtably a real person, does that add even one iota to the arguments in favour of Scientology? If he had never existed and somebody else's ideas had been wrongly ascribed to him, would that prove Thetans do not exist?

Ahh, good point.

[BrilloPad]

Jesus existed, the religion started somewhere and if there was any doubt the Romans would have documented the doubts, also the jewish religion, which had some contact with him, would have recorded doubts.

If he was just some jumped up lefty rabble rouser or the son of god is open to debate

Jesus claimed to be the son of God.

Was he mad?

[speling bee]

Can't see the relevance of discussing Christ's existence. Ron Hubbard was undoubtably a real person, does that add even one iota to the arguments in favour of Scientology? If he had never existed and somebody else's ideas had been wrongly ascribed to him, would that prove Thetans do not exist?

If Jesus never existed that would be a silver bullet in Christianity.

[speling bee]

Jesus claimed to be the son of God.

Was he mad?

The sources are not strong enough to tell us convincingly of a single thing that Jesus said.

[Cliphead]

Jesus claimed to be the son of God.

Was he mad?

Every supposed word he said was written down by people long after he was dead. Maybe he was a bipolar or schizophrenic dude with lots of charisma.