Lance Armstrong - Hero or Zero?

[ctdctd]

He was racing in the culture of the time so I guess either hero or hero with a boost.

Either way, Le Tour has lost most of my interest - even with the heroics of Wiggo this year.

[Mich the Tester]

His final question sums it up for me; "What is the point of all this testing if, in the end, USADA will not stand by it?"

He's been done on hearsay. I'm happy to believe he was doping; who wasn't at the time?

But this process has undermined the whole anti-drug approach of sports authorities. You can make yourself available for every test and never miss a single test, and still be stripped of your titles based on what someone else who's been done for doping said he saw you doing in the changing rooms.

[Mich the Tester]

Agreed.

But why stop fighting?

Because he's 40, has made his money, has more important things to do with his life and has perhaps judged that this will all blow up in the face of the anti doping agencies and governing bodies.

[mudskipper]

His final question sums it up for me; "What is the point of all this testing if, in the end, USADA will not stand by it?"

He's been done on hearsay. I'm happy to believe he was doping; who wasn't at the time?

But this process has undermined the whole anti-drug approach of sports authorities. You can make yourself available for every test and never miss a single test, and still be stripped of your titles based on what someone else who's been done for doping said he saw you doing in the changing rooms.

Quite. You have to trust the procedures in place at the time. Tittle tattle years after the event doesn't cut it.
I don't know whether he's guilty or not, but, in the absence of hard evidence to the contrary, his titles should stand.

[Mich the Tester]

Quite. You have to trust the procedures in place at the time. Tittle tattle years after the event doesn't cut it.
I don't know whether he's guilty or not, but, in the absence of hard evidence to the contrary, his titles should stand.

I think USADA might have bitten off more than they can chew, but anyway, look at what the spokesman for WADA has said; "He had a right to contest the charges. He chose not to," Fahey said. "The simple fact is that his refusal to examine the evidence means the charges had substance in them. Under the rules, penalties can now be imposed."

This effectively means 'you will be deemed guilty unless you prove your innocence'. Have they taken inspiration from the legal system of North Korea or the Salem witch trials?

[Doggy Styles]

Agreed.

But why stop fighting?

Probably because he can't be arsed any more.

I don't know whether he's guilty or not, but his last word is he's not, and anyone who says he is can howl at the moon.

[hyperD]

"The simple fact is that his refusal to examine the evidence means the charges had substance in them.

If that statement alone goes unchallenged then be very afraid citizens.

[Mich the Tester]

It's also a perversion of the English language to say that he 'had a right to contest the charges'. He had no rights at all; he was told that if he didn't contest the charges he'd be found guilty. Whatever that is, it is not a 'right'.

I (just like a lot of sportspeople) didn't have much confidence in the methods of WADA (particularly the blood passport approach), and now I don't see how sportspeople can have any confidence in their integrity. Basically, years after you've won something, and even after your career, someone with an axe to grind can accuse you of using drugs, and if you don't put everything you're doing with your life on hold and spend a tulipload of money on legal advice to defend yourself against hearsay, that you're liable to lose all your titles and the right to compete in whatever Sunday afternoon pub league competition you've joined just to stay reasonably fit and enjoy your sport.

[Mich the Tester]

If that statement alone goes unchallenged then be very afraid citizens.

Yep. Absolutely sick.

[moggy]

Quite. You have to trust the procedures in place at the time. Tittle tattle years after the event doesn't cut it.
I don't know whether he's guilty or not, but, in the absence of hard evidence to the contrary, his titles should stand.

Agreed, i like to think he is clean, would certainly be a shame if he wasn't!

But I believe now what they do is keep the samples, so that in years to come we will know if people were ahead of the tests. This was certainly happening at the olympics.