Message for the current (and any subsequent) Governments

[Scoobos]

Let’s play nice now; I think we've all had enough.

To totally debunk socialist values, is IN MY OPINION, just evil.
To totally debunk right wing views is also wrong - but not quite as evil.

The fact is that we all form opinions based on our own personal experiences, I'm from a broken and violent home, in the North. Have suffered and received help from social welfare, rebuilt my life and exceeded everyone’s expectations. I've been recently hit by a massive let down by the NHS due to cuts, which resulted in permanent and irreparable damage to my small family (I won't sue).This is partly the reason I can't bite my tounge on here as often as I'd like, but at least I always say "this is my opinion only" or at least try not to give offence.

I'm guessing the far right mostly went to private schools / grammars or academies or whatever we're calling them now, live predominately in the south east / home counties and don’t realise the impact that small events can have on human beings - and how without a social state to look after you, it isn't just as simple as "being tough and getting on with it". I might be wrong, but looking at most tories it seems this is the case.

I find that the right wingers always link money to success, which is a complete falsity in my experience - some of the most "successful" artists and inventors got no money .. What annoys me is that there's never a measured reasoning that you have had privileged upbringings, even if that’s just as simple as being born with a good mental capacity, or outlook.

I consider myself left wing, but I cannot tolerate the fact that the system seems to pander to people who take the micky - but to risk the whole system to "put it right" is just too difficult for any government with a 4 year "quick fix" agenda is never going to work.

It's not a case of having a chip on your shoulder (as I'm sure we both seem, sitting on the opposite sides of the fence), but just recognising that your outlook is personal to you - saying anything is "irrefutable" on such sensitive topics (during austerity and, I believe, a new Global Depression) is just going to upset everyone.

Oh sod it.. you know what, having been in one of the most expensive towns in england for 3 years and never ONCE having a single person reply when I say good morning to them, or say it to me - shows that perhaps the well to do have difficulty appreciating humanity and community values - it's every man for himself where I live.

I'm ranting again... sorry - god I need a challenging contract


This sounded hypocritical, but I'm fairly tolerant of righties and as I get older, continually soften to some of the views, I'm just trying to say its not black and white and destroying a social service is easy, building it back isn't. I dont trust corporations with the current ruleset at all either, I mean who would? They are self interested psychopaths.

[DodgyAgent]

I was challenging your claim I couldn't disagree with some statements you posted from the preachings of a a US Baptist pastor. I have seen no rational justification for that claim either. I wasn't claiming to be chairman Mao.

So to escape being cornered by the question you have decided to trash the person that made the statement. If he is such an idiot then I would have thought you could have easily contradicted his points.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Personally I think she got the whole lot from a Facebook friend. It's pure unadulterated sh!te.

Why is it shi!te?

How will taking all the money from the rich make the poorer better off if it is done ad nauseum? You could stop paying out tax credits, benefit payments etc etc and give everyone in the country £1 million each instead. At the end of a year some people would have £2 million and some people would have nothing, not because half the population have oppressed the other half but merely because some people are motivated to take something and made more from it. This has been borne out by people who have won the lottery, blown the lot and gone back on benefits. There are many potential psychological reasons why someone would do this but obviously throwing money at them is not the answer.

Someone who works and pays tax is, with part of that contribution, paying for someone else not to work. What is debatable is how many of those people could work and don't.

The Government per se does not make any money - it takes money in the form of taxes from the general population. I agree that it can generate revenue from the sale of gold and G3 phone licences but the purchase price has still come from the pockets of the electorate.

For point 4 please see first paragraph

The last point has been borne out by the fact that we now have whole estates full of families who have never worked and not just one generation but 2 or 3 - you cannot argue that they all must have disabilities which will preclude them from the workforce so a reasonable supposition is that they don't work because they don't have to and they don't have to because the welfare state will support them in a degree of comfort. Therefore, their situation is not so bad that they have any motivation to better themselves (and before you jump on that comment no I am not saying that forcing them into abject poverty would motivate them - they would be more likely to turn to crime).

There is a big culture in this country that denigrates success and wealth under the banner of morality but how is a country to grow if entrepreneurialism is not encouraged? Why shouldn't money and success be a motivator and why shouldn't success in the business world be applauded?

[d000hg]

Why is it shi!te?

How will taking all the money from the rich make the poorer better off if it is done ad nauseum?

Where have they said they're taking more money from the rich in order to increase benefits payouts? In fact they talk about reducing/tightening benefits.

You seem to think it's some simplistic Robin Hood scenario where the taxman takes from the rich and hands it out to the poor. The truth is he takes it, and then it disappears.

[Scoobos]

The rich pay proportionately less than the poor as a percentage of their income.

Argue with that, you're already proportionately getting better off every day - why sell a nasty tax burden thats unfair? Its only unfair because you're not getting a return to yourself - but you are...

I think you're missing the point that creating an underclass that is prepared to kill due to the hatred they have of the high and mighty, is far far more damaging to the rich.

Any country thats tried to do this (and the USA can be a moderate example, although they still have a skeleton social system) - ends up with the minority having to live in a very small area , while the angry masses threaten rape, murder and destruction . Unless you want a totalitarian regime at the top, which you're part of? (I hope not, as my conspiracy mentality will go crazy if led to beleive that conservatives really do want a utopia just for themselves).

Can you give an example, where society is "dog eat dog / survival of the fittest" and its peaceful and gives opportunity equally to all?

[DodgyAgent]

Let’s play nice now; I think we've all had enough.

To totally debunk socialist values, is IN MY OPINION, just evil.
To totally debunk right wing views is also wrong - but not quite as evil.

The fact is that we all form opinions based on our own personal experiences, I'm from a broken and violent home, in the North. Have suffered and received help from social welfare, rebuilt my life and exceeded everyone’s expectations. I've been recently hit by a massive let down by the NHS due to cuts, which resulted in permanent and irreparable damage to my small family (I won't sue).This is partly the reason I can't bite my tounge on here as often as I'd like, but at least I always say "this is my opinion only" or at least try not to give offence.

I'm guessing the far right mostly went to private schools / grammars or academies or whatever we're calling them now, live predominately in the south east / home counties and don’t realise the impact that small events can have on human beings - and how without a social state to look after you, it isn't just as simple as "being tough and getting on with it". I might be wrong, but looking at most tories it seems this is the case.

I find that the right wingers always link money to success, which is a complete falsity in my experience - some of the most "successful" artists and inventors got no money .. What annoys me is that there's never a measured reasoning that you have had privileged upbringings, even if that’s just as simple as being born with a good mental capacity, or outlook.

I consider myself left wing, but I cannot tolerate the fact that the system seems to pander to people who take the micky - but to risk the whole system to "put it right" is just too difficult for any government with a 4 year "quick fix" agenda is never going to work.

It's not a case of having a chip on your shoulder (as I'm sure we both seem, sitting on the opposite sides of the fence), but just recognising that your outlook is personal to you - saying anything is "irrefutable" on such sensitive topics (during austerity and, I believe, a new Global Depression) is just going to upset everyone.

Oh sod it.. you know what, having been in one of the most expensive towns in england for 3 years and never ONCE having a single person reply when I say good morning to them, or say it to me - shows that perhaps the well to do have difficulty appreciating humanity and community values - it's every man for himself where I live.

I'm ranting again... sorry - god I need a challenging contract


This sounded hypocritical, but I'm fairly tolerant of righties and as I get older, continually soften to some of the views, I'm just trying to say its not black and white and destroying a social service is easy, building it back isn't. I dont trust corporations with the current ruleset at all either, I mean who would? They are self interested psychopaths.

For someone who lives by right wing values and benefits from being one of the highest paid individuals in the world, and paying minimal tax I would say that you are indeed a hypocrite.
You do not abide by any socialist principles (except giving lip service to them) whatsoever so how on earth can you say that they are anything other than evil.
There is nothing wrong or right wing about sending kids to the best schools on the planet, what IS evil is that the socialist institutions should think that we should accept what they churn out without question and rubbish anything that is better as "right wing"
My god you have a twisted set of values no wonder people ignore you in the street.

Your views have nothing to do with any subjective logic they are as you say reflective of your own upbringing and your own issues and prejudices.

I challenged some girl on Twitter who proudly announced that Tesco had withdrawn from the scheme whereby unemployed could get work experience. these people like you believe that corporations have an entirely selfish agenda (just what people who's pensions are invested in their shares like to hear - including trade union pension schemes) and therefore not be allowed to "exploit" people in this way. So when I challenged her to tell the unemployed what else they were supposed to do other than sit at home and rot, she asked for me to be sympathetic to her views because she had issues.
Why should her issues have a bearing on the livelihoods of the poor

[d000hg]

The rich pay proportionately less than the poor as a percentage of their income.

Unless you're talking about elaborate avoidance measures, which would be a gross generalisation, what do you mean? The poor pay 0% tax.

[DodgyAgent]

Unless you're talking about elaborate avoidance measures, which would be a gross generalisation, what do you mean? The poor pay 0% tax.

So the poor who I presume are unemployed are paying more tax than the rich?

[Scoobos]

For someone who lives by right wing values and benefits from being one of the highest paid individuals in the world, and paying minimal tax I would say that you are indeed a hypocrite.
You do not abide by any socialist principles (except giving lip service to them) whatsoever so how on earth can you say that they are anything other than evil.

Seriously, you don't know me, or my tax affairs - I'm a contractor ONLY because the market demanded it of me - in order to do my job my clients DEMANDED B2B (as I moved overseas for work in the .COM bust) and its stuck since then. I pay higher rate tax volunatarily (up until last year, when things changed a bit for me).

I'm sure that there are other contractors with my view who also don't act in order to minimise tax. I genuinelly am not in contracting to save tax, im in it to continue to have a workstream.

excuse typos, im on my phone.

[Scoobos]

My god you have a twisted set of values no wonder people ignore you in the street.

That's just nasty DA - how does anyone know your values when you're walking down a pavement? I dont wear a t-shirt with Lefty lib written on it.

This is what I mean, where's the need for personal attacks?