contract clauses...

[janey]

I know I'm just a mere permie but I've jsut received my employment contract and wondered what you guys thought of this clause:

they are saying I can be terminated WITHOUT NOTICE for failure to perform duties, become a patient under the mental health act, or you become insolvent

surely the first is wrong because there has to be a disciplinary procedure, which they don't mention

the 2nd seems bizarre, i've never seen this before. Obviously I don't expect to be sectioned any time soon, but surely you would be protected from being sacked if you were to be? Wouldn't you be just eligible for statutory sick pay? it's only an illness after all surely?

as for the 2nd... talk about kicking you whilst you're down! the one time you need money and they sack you!

what are your thoughts guys?

[threaded]

Seems normal to me.

[DimPrawn]

It's only "fair".

No idea about permie contracts. They always seemed like waffly bulltulip to me.

Stick a pair of underpants on your head and a pencil up each nostril and see what they do.

[janey]

Seems normal to me.

really?
so if I failed to achieve a deadline then I could be sacked on the spot for not performing my duties?

[DimPrawn]

I thought that a perm contract must have equal notice periods.

So if you contract says they can terminate without notice, you legally can walk out without notice.

however, IANAL (I am not a liar)

[privateeye]

Worth checking but I don't think those clauses would be upheld in a court even if you signed them as they would be overriden by English and Welsh Law - a lot of clauses in contracts are just not enforceable. Secondly why have you only just received the contract, are they trying to change the conditions of your employment after you have arrived? If you do sign the contract make sure it is dated when you signed it not before and keep all documentation you received prior to acceptance. If the worse comes to the worse then you can claim having to sign the contract under duress that you would lose your job if you didn't sign.

Every company has to fall into line with proper disciplinary procedures there is no way out for them. With a contract like that it would be quite easy for you to win a "Constructive Dismissal" case as you are always under threat of being sacked and you have it on paper.

[janey]

Worth checking but I don't think those clauses would be upheld in a court even if you signed them as they would be overriden by English and Welsh Law - a lot of clauses in contracts are just not enforceable. <snip>
Every company has to fall into line with proper disciplinary procedures there is no way out for them. With a contract like that it would be quite easy for you to win a "Constructive Dismissal" case as you are always under threat of being sacked and you have it on paper.

see that's what I thought.
there is no mention at all about disciplinary procedures.

there's also the usual "can't go work for one of our competitors for 6 months" clause which I know has been mentioned before as unenforceable.

Yup, only just received the contract, and only after I pestered them for it. The HR manager s off on holiday this week and she forgot to give it to me before she left. I did have something to sign before I joined the company as an "acceptance" type thing and they said the employment contract would be given to me on my first day.

I find the mental helth thing baffling too... like I said before, surely that would just come under "sickness" and you could claim SSP?

[bogeyman]

Seems normal to me.

Naturally, as you...

1) fail to perform duties

2) are a patient under the mental health act

3) are insolvent

[privateeye]

I did have something to sign before I joined the company as an "acceptance" type thing and they said the employment contract would be given to me on my first day.

They have to have the employment contract to you before you start otherwise they not you are on dodgy ground if ever it did come to dismissal - date it the day you sign it not before if you do decide to sign.

[janey]

They have to have the employment contract to you before you start otherwise they not you are on dodgy ground if ever it did come to dismissal - date it the day you sign it not before if you do decide to sign.

hmm didn't know that. why is it dodgy ground? what are the consequences?

i dont' really have much choice but to sign it to be honest... otherwise i'm out of a job!