Where's the "All your emails and texts and phonecalls are belong to us" thread then?

[Mr.Whippy]

and a team of 5 or 6 people to tackle several doomsday threats simultaneously across the UK.

With all the Tory cutbacks thats probably not too far from the truth now

[Mr.Whippy]

So to conclude, too much information, too much cost, 12 billion wasted on a NHS system (which would be simple by comparison) which never worked.

That displays quite a bit of ignorance about the whole NPfIT to be honest. I take it you never work on any of the various parts of the project?

There were far more elements to the £12bn project than the summary care records part.

[Doggy Styles]

That displays quite a bit of ignorance about the whole NPfIT to be honest. I take it you never work on any of the various parts of the project?

There were far more elements to the £12bn project than the summary care records part.

Agreed. I worked on another bit. Quite successful as well.

[wim121]

This would have never happened under Labour.

Either you're trolling or just incredibly stupid. I cant quite tell.

New labour wrecked this country under their thirteen year rule. They made a surveillance state filled with PC correct language.

It should be noted, this plan being attempted by the coalition is a rehash of a failed plan under new labour, so you are in fact 100% wrong. Labour wanted this and ID cards to be a reality. Labour are the most totalitarian party there is. Maybe instead of flicking through porn mags, you should flick through parties manifestos and the newspapers from time to time.

The problem as I understand it is that evidence garnered illegally couldn't be used in the case against the defendant.

So everyone could know that a bloke is a felon, but he could get off on that technicality.

Making it legal should mean they can bang more villains to rights. Perhaps.

No, making it legal increases the power to a totalitarian state.

Labour passed the laws that one can be held for weeks on end, without ever being charged, as well as hundreds of other crazy laws.



So for instance, let's say you were anti-establishment but never broke any laws, let alone committed treasonous behaviour, however let's say someone wanted you locked up:

You could be arrested, never told why you're being held, denied the ability to defend yourself or seek help as you dont know why you're there.

All of us are felons in our lives. Talked to a mate about the great rate you're getting on your ISA? You're a criminal. Anything you ever say or do can be twisted and get you locked up for, should you give anyone the motive.


The frequency as to which this happens is very common but you rarely here about them as the victims are silenced easily. One extreme case though a while back was a university student doing a political course and had to research material on terrorism. Intelligence took exception to this and he was abducted/arrested, held without charge, shipped to gitmo as an enemy of the state without charge, beaten and in danger of his life in a torture pen which violates every convention and ounce of humanity. He only got shipped back to the UK and allowed to resume his civilian life as people on the outside cared enough to lobby for his release from detention.

He appeared on newsnight or something similar a while back in a debate and a representative of the government said he shouldnt have been looking at that material, as if that excused our states illegal behaviour, enshrined in law and made legal, many individuals bundled out of the UK, flown to a country that doesnt recognise humane conventions and then flown to gitmo.

The sad fact is, our society and justice is so ill, so polluted and sick, that the innocent have more to fear than the guilty.

[TimberWolf]

Hardly. So we are to believe that they cant make a simple database to hold NHS records work, but they can make a database that holds all e-mails, texts, and phone convos. Lets not forget that its just not the 3% of e-mails that you want, its the 97% of e-mails which are spam.

Also a lot of e-mail doesnt go via ISP SMTP Server, the private server opens a connection to the remote server often negotiates encryption and then sends. How they gonna get that?

Anyone who really wants to hide what they are doing will deploy VPN, and or TOR. They will buy PAYG mobiles with cash, use cash to top them up.

So to conclude, too much information, too much cost, 12 billion wasted on a NHS system (which would be simple by comparison) which never worked. And even if it did work it would be very easily avoided by anyone with a little computer knowledge / common sense.

For email, just use one-time pads. Millions would fit on a memory card. Simple and uncrackable. Not sure I'd trust even open source encryption systems not containing back doors, and propitiatory ones almost certainly contain them as well as being riddled with unintended exploits.

For web surfing, devices can be bought without ID and surfing can be done anonymously on public WiFi networks. You might end up getting followed or caught on camera though.

[BrilloPad]

Testing testing, one, two three four.


Can you hear me GCHQ?

Testing testing.

nuclear. anthrax.

HTH

[escapeUK]

That displays quite a bit of ignorance about the whole NPfIT to be honest. I take it you never work on any of the various parts of the project?

There were far more elements to the £12bn project than the summary care records part.

Yes totally ignorant to it. I would never work in the public sector. Anyway the point wasnt to disparage the work people have done, just to say that government has a poor record for completing working IT systems.

[Mr.Whippy]

Yes totally ignorant to it. I would never work in the public sector. Anyway the point wasnt to disparage the work people have done, just to say that government has a poor record for completing working IT systems.

You mean the government has a poor record of selecting IT suppliers that can actually deliver what they promise.

[Doggy Styles]

The problem as I understand it is that evidence garnered illegally couldn't be used in the case against the defendant.

So everyone could know that a bloke is a felon, but he could get off on that technicality.

Making it legal should mean they can bang more villains to rights. Perhaps.

No, making it legal increases the power to a totalitarian state.

Labour passed the laws that one can be held for weeks on end, without ever being charged, as well as hundreds of other crazy laws.

So for instance, let's say you were anti-establishment but never broke any laws, let alone committed treasonous behaviour, however let's say someone wanted you locked up:

You could be arrested, never told why you're being held, denied the ability to defend yourself or seek help as you dont know why you're there.

All of us are felons in our lives. Talked to a mate about the great rate you're getting on your ISA? You're a criminal. Anything you ever say or do can be twisted and get you locked up for, should you give anyone the motive.


The frequency as to which this happens is very common but you rarely here about them as the victims are silenced easily. One extreme case though a while back was a university student doing a political course and had to research material on terrorism. Intelligence took exception to this and he was abducted/arrested, held without charge, shipped to gitmo as an enemy of the state without charge, beaten and in danger of his life in a torture pen which violates every convention and ounce of humanity. He only got shipped back to the UK and allowed to resume his civilian life as people on the outside cared enough to lobby for his release from detention.

He appeared on newsnight or something similar a while back in a debate and a representative of the government said he shouldnt have been looking at that material, as if that excused our states illegal behaviour, enshrined in law and made legal, many individuals bundled out of the UK, flown to a country that doesnt recognise humane conventions and then flown to gitmo.

The sad fact is, our society and justice is so ill, so polluted and sick, that the innocent have more to fear than the guilty.

Wim121, this is all beside the point, which was simply about making it legal.

Evidence collected using illegal methods cannot normally be used in a court of law. Therefore, despite having proof that a defendant is guilty, it cannot be used to prosecute them. If the other evidence isn't strong enough they walk free.

As I understand it these new powers will allow them to use such evidence. Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant to the point.

[wim121]

Wim121, this is all beside the point, which was simply about making it legal.

Evidence collected using illegal methods cannot normally be used in a court of law. Therefore, despite having proof that a defendant is guilty, it cannot be used to prosecute them. If the other evidence isn't strong enough they walk free.

As I understand it these new powers will allow them to use such evidence. Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant to the point.

That was my exact point which you are missing.

- police/intelligence/gov want to imprison a radical
- obtaining evidence in this manner is legalised

Before this nonsense, he would walk free as he committed no crime.

However now he doesn't as if he isn't found guilty of treason, he is found guilty of another made up crime in the insane mind of labour that we are left with.

That is why i used the point of bragging about your isa rate, yes that is illegal.