Question Time last night

[DodgyAgent]

Do you think reducing the pay of executives is going to help the economy? Of course it isn't. Therefore I don't care what they earn, it doesn't affect me.

And what exactly do these protesters want to do? Maximum wage? 90% taxation? Some new body setting remuneration for every person as it sees fit? I could sympathise if they proposed a return to regulations that curbed fiscal mismanagement or some other practical measure, but not pointless envy.

On the other hand, if anyone thinks they are worth the same as executives, let them go out and prove it. Go and earn more. Go and run a company and employ people. Be responsible for perhaps hundreds, perhaps thousands of people. Manufacture things. That would be a lot more useful than just whingeing from the sidelines about other people's good fortune.

A man after my own heart.

[Arturo Bassick]

Before I go down this one, I personally fully endorse the model that IT contractors are paid

If you bothered to read what I said you will find that I agree with you. nI was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of mr Peoplesoft

I did read it, I even provided an example of what I thought you agreed with.
I just took issue with your "could be argued". I do not see how you could argue that what I/we do is somehow not valuable.

[BrilloPad]

Not really true - income distribution is far wider than it was in the 1950s. We're back at a peak of income distribution skew that hasn't been seen since the late 1920s. Remember what happened after that?

The problem with concentrating too much wealth in the hands of the few is that it reduces the velocity of money.

I wish there was a better way to correct this than depression.

[DodgyAgent]

I did read it, I even provided an example of what I thought you agreed with.
I just took issue with your "could be argued". I do not see how you could argue that what I/we do is somehow not valuable.

The point is, nobody is really worth what they get paid. A local authority chief exec on £150,000 per year is not worth 5 times as much to society as a senior nurse on £30,000 per year, and a banker on £1,500,000 per year is not worth 10 times as much to society as a local authority chief exec. The way that the market values people is badly out-of-synch with the actual value they create. This is because we've allowed the system to get badly distorted. What's needed is for a comprehensive review of our whole value-system as a society and a re-aligning of the rules of law/economy/policy to reinforce and encourage whatever we work out to be our values. Of course, this is extremely unlikely to happen because there are very powerful vested interests who will do all they can to ensure that nothing upsets their cosy position at the top of the pile where they keep grabbing all the wealth for themselves regardless of the negative effect that has on the majority of people.

It's amazing enough that people put up with bankers & chief-execs getting paid millions for their "work" in the so-called "boom years" (that were really just a false illusion), but I just can't understand how the general public appear to have rolled-over and accepted the continuing rewards-for-failure paid to bankers out of taxpayers money.


It was one of you lot that said this not one of us. Reading it I would imagine that some of the first in line to fall foul with this argument (sorry diatribe of entitlement) would be IT contractors

[DodgyAgent]

The problem with concentrating too much wealth in the hands of the few is that it reduces the velocity of money.

I wish there was a better way to correct this than depression.

Which is what the debate should be about. The fact is that the whole debate is a front line of argument between the right and the left instead of being any practical discussion about what in my view is a very real problem.

[Arturo Bassick]

The point is, nobody is really worth what they get paid. A local authority chief exec on £150,000 per year is not worth 5 times as much to society as a senior nurse on £30,000 per year, and a banker on £1,500,000 per year is not worth 10 times as much to society as a local authority chief exec. The way that the market values people is badly out-of-synch with the actual value they create. This is because we've allowed the system to get badly distorted. What's needed is for a comprehensive review of our whole value-system as a society and a re-aligning of the rules of law/economy/policy to reinforce and encourage whatever we work out to be our values. Of course, this is extremely unlikely to happen because there are very powerful vested interests who will do all they can to ensure that nothing upsets their cosy position at the top of the pile where they keep grabbing all the wealth for themselves regardless of the negative effect that has on the majority of people.

It's amazing enough that people put up with bankers & chief-execs getting paid millions for their "work" in the so-called "boom years" (that were really just a false illusion), but I just can't understand how the general public appear to have rolled-over and accepted the continuing rewards-for-failure paid to bankers out of taxpayers money.


It was one of you lot that said this not one of us. Reading it I would imagine that some of the first in line to fall foul with this argument (sorry diatribe of entitlement) would be IT contractors

and I would argue otherwise.

As I said and I think you agree that what you earn is dependant on how many others can do it and then on how much wealth it generates.

When a CEO turns a business around then he is worth the difference, but we seem to have a generation of fat cats who think that because the last guy earned 1 mill so should they. They also seem to feel they are entitled to golden handshakes even though they have presided over a disaster.

I also agree with the earlier poster that bankers profits in earlier years are somewhat of an illusion.

[SimonMac]

However I can't understand why people like Fred Goodwin aren't in prison for almost causing financial collapse, his income was high because he was responsible for a large bank, so he should be made to take responsibility of the problems his bank has caused.

Because stupidity isn't against the law, if it was you'd be in prison along with all the other sockies on here!

[DodgyAgent]

and I would argue otherwise.

As I said and I think you agree that what you earn is dependant on how many others can do it and then on how much wealth it generates.

When a CEO turns a business around then he is worth the difference, but we seem to have a generation of fat cats who think that because the last guy earned 1 mill so should they. They also seem to feel they are entitled to golden handshakes even though they have presided over a disaster.

I also agree with the earlier poster that bankers profits in earlier years are somewhat of an illusion.

I am not arguing it from your or my point of view. However what effing difference is it going to make for a few highly paid CEOs to be made more accountable for their performances? They along with bankers pay are a red herring with regards to what is wrong with this country. Apart from anything else your comments on exec pay are sweeping anecdotes picked out of the press. Either we have a table that judges "worth" in what people do for everyone or not at all. And I am afraid that in the context of valuing what people do then contractors will come under more serious scrutiny than any other type of job.

[darmstadt]

It's amazing enough that people put up with bankers & chief-execs getting paid millions for their "work" in the so-called "boom years" (that were really just a false illusion), but I just can't understand how the general public appear to have rolled-over and accepted the continuing rewards-for-failure paid to bankers out of taxpayers money.

Probably because 90% of the general public are ******* numpties who couldn't wipe their own arse if they weren't shown how.

[d000hg]

Reading it I would imagine that some of the first in line to fall foul with this argument (sorry diatribe of entitlement) would be IT contractors

Agreed. We're on shaky ground kicking up a fuss about bankers when the public would put us in the same boat as them... especially those of us on £500+/day AT the banks.