Pilger's not happy

[threaded]

Thats nice but how do you define determination and perseverance?

Bodhidharma faced the wall.

The Second Ancestor stood in the snow, cut off his arm and said, " Your disciple's mind has no peace as yet. Master, please, put it to rest. "

Bodhidharma said, " Bring me your mind, and I will put it to rest."

The Second Ancestor said, " I have searched for my mind, but I cannot find it."

Bodhidharma said, " I have completely put it to rest for you."

[sasguru]

Threaded went into the pie shop.

The Second Pie Salesman stood behind the counter, cut off his arm and said, " Your disciple's mind has no peace as yet. Master, please, put it to rest. "

Threaded said, " Bring me your your best Pork Pie, and I will put it to rest."

The Second Pie Salesman said, " I have searched for my mind, but I cannot find it."

Threaded scarpered out of the shop, clutching his pork pie, shouting "wan ker" at the now dying pie salesman.

[dang65]

So, what's to be done then? Any sensible suggestions, other than "leave the country", or "vote for someone else at the next election" which would be too late? This place reputedly contains some of the finest minds on the planet.

That's the problem with the likes of John Pilger and Michael Moore. They basically state the bleedin' obvious, albeit in very passionate and "gosh, really?" sort of tones, but they themselves don't come up with any answers or suggestions. You're just left feeling angry, and completely helpless.

There is an excellent campaign against ID Cards already well under way (no2id) which gives plenty of practical advice and a very comprehensive email newsletter. But it's blatantly obvious that ID cards will be a complete failure in this country anyway so it's not really a freedom issue, just a major waste of money issue.

I'd love to see some more practical campaigning to get us out of Iraq though. I was thinking of a possible demostration the other day actually. I don't know a single person who supports our occupation of Iraq and I was wondering how we could all demonstrate this without another futile march through London which only a few people can be arsed with attending. I thought, what if everyone in the country released a helium-filled balloon at exactly the same moment - like on the pips at 6pm on a Monday evening or something. Or even better if everyone set off a firework at the exact same moment, but that wouldn't be very fair on animals and sensitive people. Or how about a signal flare (do they make a noise? I suppose they must do really.) Or a smoke flare? Anything?

Whatever was agreed, cameras would then be placed on tall buildings all over the country and the effect be filmed and broadcast. Millions of balloons/fireworks/flares going up at the same moment. I reckon something like that would really show the strength of feeling, however futile it might be. We're not very good at protesting in this country, but a quiet demonstration from your own back garden might be acceptable to many people.

[wendigo100]

But it's blatantly obvious that ID cards will be a complete failure in this country anyway so it's not really a freedom issue, just a major waste of money issue.

Which do you mean:

1. It will be a technical failure - it simply won't work properly
2. It will be deliberately misused
3. It will be badly managed in operation
4. It won't solve any of the problems it is introduced for

[Emperor Dalek]

5. It will make identity theft easier by providing an "access all areas" one stop shop for fraudsters.

[dang65]

Which do you mean:

1. It will be a technical failure - it simply won't work properly
2. It will be deliberately misused
3. It will be badly managed in operation
4. It won't solve any of the problems it is introduced for

Well, all 4, and probably in that order actually. I mean, it will just be complete chaos, whether by deliberate sabotage or just bureaucratic incompetance, and technically it is pretty much certain to not work, ever.

The real issue is not the Orwellian Nightmare, but whether it can be stopped before any more billions are poured into the whole futile money pit.

[threaded]

5. It will make identity theft easier by providing an "access all areas" one stop shop for fraudsters.

I wish they'd get a move on. I plan to franchise out a "New ID While U Wait" operation all incorporated into a lightweight breifcase. £10K for a case and a one day training course, then a franchise fee of 10% on profit.

Can't see why anyone with a bit of computer knowledge and a lack of scruples would be upset by ID cards. Fill yer boots: absolutely loadsa money to be made in this!

[DaveB]

I wish they'd get a move on. I plan to franchise out a "New ID While U Wait" operation all incorporated into a lightweight breifcase. £10K for a case and a one day training course, then a franchise fee of 10% on profit.

Can't see why anyone with a bit of computer knowledge and a lack of scruples would be upset by ID cards. Fill yer boots: absolutely loadsa money to be made in this!

Doesn't need computer knowledge. Get the appropriate documents to "prove" your identity and apply for one as normal. Bingo, one bona fide, uncontestable, proof of your "identity".

It's already perfectly possible to forge your identity using the appropriate documents. The new system is going to be so full of holes that checking every detail on every application will be physically impossible.

Notice still that no-one has come up with the answer to the basic question. "What do I need to prove my identity in order to get an identity card?".

[Emperor Dalek]

Notice still that no-one has come up with the answer to the basic question. "What do I need to prove my identity in order to get an identity card?".

Exactly, DaveB. After all, if that "whatever it is" is good enough to prove your identity to get an identity card, why can't we use that and forget about identity cards altogether?

Or are we saying that the real purpose of the identity card scheme isn't quite what the government is leading us to believe? Surely not?

[The Lone Gunman]

The ID card as proposed will stop you changing your identity, unlike the present system.

I am assuming the technology will work.

If you have to have iris scans and fingerprints then you will only be able to appear once on the database, a simple duplicates check will render anything else impossible.

The problem comes when some technical crook finds a way to modify the database and steals someones ID. Its not like you can get a new set of finger prints is it.