going private . . .

[mudskipper]

If money's an issue, I'd say forget it at infant school age. Invest the time reading and doing basic maths at home and you won't go far wrong. As soon as they get labelled as 'bright' they live up to it.

My youngest is at one of the top state grammars. The facilities are tulipe compared to many comprehensives - they get none of the extra allowances for special needs etc, and have only a tiny number of children on 'free school meals' which I believe also attracts a premium. But it provides an excellent environment for bright kids, and it's cool to be clever. I think that's one of the problems at a comp (especially for boys) - if you're clever you're a nerd.

[SueEllen]

If money's an issue, I'd say forget it at infant school age. Invest the time reading and doing basic maths at home and you won't go far wrong. As soon as they get labelled as 'bright' they live up to it.

My youngest is at one of the top state grammars. The facilities are tulipe compared to many comprehensives - they get none of the extra allowances for special needs etc, and have only a tiny number of children on 'free school meals' which I believe also attracts a premium. But it provides an excellent environment for bright kids, and it's cool to be clever. I think that's one of the problems at a comp (especially for boys) - if you're clever you're a nerd.

Comps now stream and if the comp is good then there will be very little interaction between the bright kids and the thicker troublemakers. (They need to keep the bright kids happy and motivate for the league tables, and any publicity they can get out of them doing various activities.) The problem is if your kid is in the middle which is when it's worth going private or moving to a better area.

[minestrone]

THe girly went to this school and everyone managed to get a degree in her family...

English, physics, maths, law, medicine.

[Freamon]

I think that's one of the problems at a comp (especially for boys) - if you're clever you're a nerd.

Probably only true in the worst schools. Good schools pride themselves on the number of kids they send to oxbridge, the number who take part in national maths competitions, chess club etc etc.

[d000hg]

Probably only true in the worst schools. Good schools pride themselves on the number of kids they send to oxbridge, the number who take part in national maths competitions, chess club etc etc.

Even at the private school I went to the smart ones were designated nerds. I think it's just something you have to live with in England, our culture doesn't like people who try hard.

[PRC1964]

Nerds is soooo last century. They get called Neeks now.

For what it's worth, my eldest passed the 11+ for a school just outside our catchment area but when given the choice chose the local comprehensive (which is excellent anyway) to be with his friends. As others have said, it is all streamed so he spent at most one month with the neantherthals and is now pushed and encouraged all the way.

[DodgyAgent]

Pretty much none of that is true. Sacking a teacher from a private school is pretty difficult, they're still unionised etc. Teachers rarely get sacked from any school, but their lives are made uncomfortable to the point where they choose to leave - this happens regularly in state schools. Facilities in state schools are better than you'd imagine, they've spent vast sums on IT etc in the last 10 years. Private schools have to balance the books, which is why at the moment they're spending no money on facilities and making teachers redundant.

They may indeed have spent vast money on IT but so has the NHS. facilities may be better than you imagine but there are no "forces" that ensure money is spent wisely in the public sector. public sector institutions are run primarily for the benefit of those who run them and then those who work in them. Classes sizes are much higher and out of hours activities are left to volunteers. Sport is sadly lacking in comps, and I believe that sport especially for non academic kids is essential.

[Mich the Tester]

sport especially for non academic kids is essential.

Yep, agree with this 100%; even though sport doesn't offer a career for anyone other than the most talented or those who go into coaching or PE, it offers other lessons about perseverance, self reliance and team work (yes, even individual sports teach teamwork; you can't be a top athlete if you don't train in a team with other athletes and a coach). It also helps develop hand to eye coordination, spatial awareness and physical strength, all important and beneficial for people who will go into manual trades. It can give you a different perspective on life and success to the standard 'how much money do you earn'. I know a lot of people in sports who aren't gifted with the ability to earn loads of money in graduate professions or work their way to the top of a business, but who get fulfillment from competing in sports each weekend and gaining the rewards they've trained for. And, in danger of sounding sentimental, it can make you a lot of friends.

Helps against obesity too.

[DodgyAgent]

Yep, agree with this 100%; even though sport doesn't offer a career for anyone other than the most talented or those who go into coaching or PE, it offers other lessons about perseverance, self reliance and team work (yes, even individual sports teach teamwork; you can't be a top athlete if you don't train in a team with other athletes and a coach). It also helps develop hand to eye coordination, spatial awareness and physical strength, all important and beneficial for people who will go into manual trades. It can give you a different perspective on life and success to the standard 'how much money do you earn'. I know a lot of people in sports who aren't gifted with the ability to earn loads of money in graduate professions or work their way to the top of a business, but who get fulfillment from competing in sports each weekend and gaining the rewards they've trained for. And, in danger of sounding sentimental, it can make you a lot of friends.

Helps against obesity too.

Most importantly it gives kids a sense of self worth and belonging from which comes confidence

[Arturo Bassick]

<snip>

If done properly it teaches you how to lose gracefully too. An important skill. Learning how to assess your performance to improve. Learning how success comes from endeavour. Removes the idea of entitlement.