Who is prepared to admit they were wrong about the Euro?

[DodgyAgent]

hang on is the Euro area in a bigger "bloody" mess than the US? Is the UK better off.

When Euroland is in a true mess and the US and the UK are booming with no huge debt I´ll come on board the "Euro was a mistake" . I don´t see this yet, Germany actually hasn´t yet paid a penny, they´ve earnt money and at the moment Germany is actually earning 10´s of millions in interest payments. I´m working in Switzerland where the Swiss national bank is throwing millions out the window keeping the Franc low, because thousands of businesses are about to go bankrupt. Most Swiss shops are completely empty. Greece with much kicking and swearing is actually cutting it´s budget deficit, which it wouldn´t have done if it was "on it´s own", and even Ireland looks like it´s coming out the worst of it. When Greece cut´s salaries which it has done this is no different to a devaluation. In fact it´s better than a devaluation, because the Greeks keep their savings in tact, inflation stays low, but they´ll become cheaper. So lets wait for a few years shall we and then draw our conclusions. I have a feeling Euroland will sort out it´s problems before the UK and the US will. I don´t see any real cuts at all in the UK or the US, yet.

Don´t believe the cr"p about if you devalue and spend even more money you´ll come through. Britain devalued several times and still ended up deep in the sh"te; that´s because there is no alternative to "pain". What was it Norman Lamont said? "if it´s not hurting its not working". Well Greece hurts.....

It is not an argument about comparative economies it is about the euro. The UK can manage its fiscal policies to suit itself whereas the Euro cannot manage fiscal policies to suit all its member states. Either Greece defaults and devalues or the Germans bail them out and take control of the Greek economy.

[milanbenes]

this is the best bit, you lot always say that...

'The UK can manage its fiscal policies to suit itself whereas the Euro cannot manage fiscal policies to suit all its member states.'


and please explain how exactly the US with their single currency and 49 states solve this conumdrum ?

not rocket science is it

Milan.

p.s. don't forget all the euro headlines are simply to divert attention and awareness away from the real problems in the US and UK

[sasguru]

hang on is the Euro area in a bigger "bloody" mess than the US? Is the UK better off.

When Euroland is in a true mess and the US and the UK are booming with no huge debt I´ll come on board the "Euro was a mistake" . I don´t see this yet, Germany actually hasn´t yet paid a penny, they´ve earnt money and at the moment Germany is actually earning 10´s of millions in interest payments. I´m working in Switzerland where the Swiss national bank is throwing millions out the window keeping the Franc low, because thousands of businesses are about to go bankrupt. Most Swiss shops are completely empty. Greece with much kicking and swearing is actually cutting it´s budget deficit, which it wouldn´t have done if it was "on it´s own", and even Ireland looks like it´s coming out the worst of it. When Greece cut´s salaries which it has done this is no different to a devaluation. In fact it´s better than a devaluation, because the Greeks keep their savings in tact, inflation stays low, but they´ll become cheaper. So lets wait for a few years shall we and then draw our conclusions. I have a feeling Euroland will sort out it´s problems before the UK and the US will. I don´t see any real cuts at all in the UK or the US, yet.

Don´t believe the cr"p about if you devalue and spend even more money you´ll come through. Britain devalued several times and still ended up deep in the sh"te; that´s because there is no alternative to "pain". What was it Norman Lamont said? "if it´s not hurting its not working". Well Greece hurts.....

Here's why Euroland is in deeper crap than the US and UK: They face sovereign default of one or more countries as opposed to banking default.
IF Greece defaults, French banks will need recapitalization , but French debt is so high they won't be able to (Britain AFTER its bank rescue has government debt similar to France).
A Greek default is inevitable; all the austerity in the world will not sort out their problems. After that the crap will really hit the fan

[sasguru]

this is the best bit, you lot always say that...

'The UK can manage its fiscal policies to suit itself whereas the Euro cannot manage fiscal policies to suit all its member states.'


and please explain how exactly the US with their single currency and 49 states solve this conumdrum ?

not rocket science is it

Milan.

p.s. don't forget all the euro headlines are simply to divert attention and awareness away from the real problems in the US and UK

This was explained several posts ago, please stay out of the thread if you're too mentally slow to keep up.

[milanbenes]

I am fixing mdm in parallel to watching you talk tulipe

so please, for those of us with work to do, quickly explain how they do it in the US regarding interest rates

and if you don't know STFU


good lad


Milan.

[Paddy]

It is not an argument about comparative economies it is about the euro. The UK can manage its fiscal policies to suit itself whereas the Euro cannot manage fiscal policies to suit all its member states. Either Greece defaults and devalues or the Germans bail them out and take control of the Greek economy.

It seems that Greece and probably Portugal have to go; the sooner the better. Their books were cooked by Goldman Sachs in order to get. The Euro has wider implications than just Europe because some oil trading and some international trade in done in Euros because of the move away from the Dollar.

[sasguru]

I am fixing mdm in parallel to watching you talk tulipe

so please, for those of us with work to do, quickly explain how they do it in the US regarding interest rates

and if you don't know STFU


good lad


Milan.

You really are a village idiot, probably literally.
In the US they set an interest rate and it works because they are a single country with similar economic cicumstances across all states and a common language.
Unlike Europe which a collection of different countries with widely disparate economic systems.
You might as well ask how Britain has the the same interest rate for Surrey and the North East

[Paddy]

You really are a village idiot, probably literally.
In the US they set an interest rate and it works because they are a single country with similar economic cicumstances across all states and a common language.
Unlike Europe which a collection of different countries with widely disparate economic systems.
You might as well ask how Britain has the the same interest rate for Surrey and the North East

Various US states have differant laws and taxation. Some of the differances are more that what there are between EU countries.

[sasguru]

Various US states have differant laws and taxation. Some of the differances are more that what there are between EU countries.

For example?

The Netherlands and Germany are probably very similar. And that's all.
I'd like to see two US states that are more different than France and Germany in attitiude, language, food, economy, home ownership rates etc. etc.

[DodgyAgent]

I am fixing mdm in parallel to watching you talk tulipe

so please, for those of us with work to do, quickly explain how they do it in the US regarding interest rates

and if you don't know STFU


good lad


Milan.

If Florida is booming and house prices are rising and the costs of production go up then investment will switch to a state or states where costs are low. Workers who lose their jobs in Florida will follow the work leaving Florida's economy to recede and then grow again as costs fall. This pattern is adopted throughout the USA and because capital and labour has so much flexibility the central bank can set interest rates accordingly. And because the central bank is answerable to the govt it is therefore controlled by the electorate.

tax rates are set by the government with localised taxes raised by states. states therefore compete with each other to a degree whereas central govt has overall control.

In the EU there is no such labour mobility as language barriers and a culture of "going home for lunch" prevails. If Ireland becomes too expensive and capital and investment leaves the country it remains stuck with a price bubble and unemployment. It cannot raise interest rates in order to ease pricing bubbles and reduce borrowing so it stagnates into recession. A recession that has become full blown without any ability to nip it in the bud early. There is no democratic mechanism by which the ECB can favour Ireland instead of say Germany, so the Irish are stuffed.