Watching documentaries about the last unpleasantness on NHK

[MarillionFan]

I think HMQE was mighty pleased with the booty that Francis Drake brought into the country.

The potato, tobacco and Rap music innit.

[Troll]

Nope.

I have no issues with the Japanese.

It was the tone of "why did they do these nasty things to us when we only wanted to dominate the Asian sphere of influence" that got me.

Would you not agree that America effectively forced Japan into war in order to secure its supplies of iron ore, steel and oil

[shaunbhoy]

Would you not agree that America effectively forced Japan into war in order to secure its supplies of iron ore, steel and oil

No.

Next




Simplistic knobber!

[Spacecadet]

Would you not agree that America effectively forced Japan into war in order to secure its supplies of iron ore, steel and oil

I think it was actually the other way round, and given how the Japanese manufacturing sector grew after the second world war, I'd say the Japs won!

[Churchill]

Would you not agree that America effectively forced Japan into war in order to secure its supplies of iron ore, steel and oil

Considering that Japan has to import those resources as it has none of its own, nope.

Next question.

[DaveB]

Would you not agree that America effectively forced Japan into war in order to secure its supplies of iron ore, steel and oil

No.

[Troll]

Interesting that lack of knowledge of history is so prevalent on this board - I can understand Shaunbhoy getting his history from pot noodling over Mel in Braveheart, but do they not teach it anymore in schools?

Other than a few coal and iron deposits, Japan lacks extensive natural resources. At the beginning of the twentieth century, Japan was a latecomer to the club of industrialized imperialist countries. By the time it had the ability to gain its own colonies, much of the Pacific and its resources had been carved up between the Western Great Powers: the British Empire included India, Singapore, Papua New Guinea; the French empire included French Indochina; and the Netherlands held the Dutch East Indies.
In addition, the sphere of influence of the United States was expanding across the Pacific, annexing Hawaii, the Philippines, and providing crucial assistance to China.

At the turn of the century in the Russo-Japanese War, Japan had succeeded in pushing back the East Asian expansion of the Russian Empire in competition for Korea and Manchuria.

The natural resources in Asia were shipped to fuel the industries of the colonial powers at low prices, often in closed economic systems such as the British Commonwealth, and were denied the Japanese industry.[citation needed] The markets for finished goods sent the colonies were also closed to the Japanese.

According to Japanese diplomat Mamoru Shigemitsu, "The Japanese were completely shut out from the European colonies. In the Philippines, Indo-China, Borneo, Indonesia, Malaya, Burma, not only were Japanese activities forbidden, but even entry. Ordinary trade was hampered by unnatural discriminatory treatment.... In a sense the Manchurian outbreak was the result of the international closed economies that followed on the first World War. There was a feeling at the back of it that it provided the only escape from economic strangulation."

The largest source both of raw material and consumers in Asia was China. Japan was determined to dominate this market, which the U.S. and other European powers had been dominating. On October 19, 1939, the American Ambassador to Japan, Joseph C. Grew, in a formal address to the America-Japan Society stated, ""What I shall say in Japan in the ensuing months 'comes straight from the horses mouth' in that it will accurately represent and interpret some of the current thoughts of the American government and people with regard to Japan and the Far East.....the American Government and people earnestly desire security, stability, and progress not only for themselves but for all other nations in every quarter of the world. But the new order in East Asia has appeared to include, among other things, depriving Americans of their long established rights in China, and to this the American people are opposed....American rights and interests in China are being impaired or destroyed by the policies and actions of the Japanese authorities in China."

In 1937 Japan invaded Manchuria and China proper. Under the guise of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, with slogans as "Asia for the Asians!" Japan sought to remove the Western powers influence in China and replace it with Japanese domination.

The ongoing conflict in China led to a deepening conflict with the U.S., where public opinion was alarmed by events such as the Nanking Massacre and growing Japanese power. Lengthy talks were held between the U.S. and Japan. When Japan moved into the southern part of French Indochina, President Roosevelt chose to freeze all Japanese assets in the U.S. The intended consequence of this was the halt of oil shipments from the U.S. to Japan, which had supplied 80 percent of Japanese oil imports. The Netherlands and UK followed suit. With oil reserves that would last only a year and a half during peace time (much less during wartime), Japan had two choices: comply with the U.S.-led demand to pull out of China, or seize the oilfields in the East Indies from the Netherlands. The Japan government deemed it unacceptable to retreat from China.

Hoping to knock out the United States for long enough to be able to achieve and consolidate their war-aims, the Japanese Navy attacked the U.S. Navy at Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. They mistakenly believed they would have a two year window to consolidate their conquests before the United States could effectively respond, and the United States would seek a compromise peace long before the tide of war could potentially turn to the Allies' superior production.

HTH

[MarillionFan]

Interesting that lack of knowledge of history is so prevalent on this board - I can understand Shaunbhoy getting his history from pot noodling over Mel in Braveheart, but do they not teach it anymore in schools?

HTH

Four posters pwned in one post. A record methinks.

[Spacecadet]

Would you not agree that America effectively forced Japan into war in order to secure its supplies of iron ore, steel and oil

Four posters pwned in one post. A record methinks.

Not really, his quoted text backs up the assertion that Japan started the war in order to secure supplies of iron ore, steel and oil

The largest source both of raw material and consumers in Asia was China. Japan was determined to dominate this market, which the U.S. and other European powers had been dominating.

In 1937 Japan invaded Manchuria and China proper. Under the guise of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, with slogans as "Asia for the Asians!" Japan sought to remove the Western powers influence in China and replace it with Japanese domination.

[MarillionFan]

Not really, his quoted text backs up the assertion that Japan started the war in order to secure supplies of iron ore, steel and oil

His question "Would you not agree that America effectively forced Japan into war in order to secure its supplies of iron ore, steel and oil "

His quotes, therefore back up the reasoning that the actions of the US forced the hand of Japan into attacking the US and effectively forcing them into the war.

ie. Backdown or you'll have to attack us.

Knowing that the likes of the Japanese high command are like Churchill(ie. saving face) then it's quite obvious they would attack.