David Starkey

[xoggoth]

Very over simplistic to blame it all in that (especially the looting which was largely about people seizing their opportunities) although it is a factor. Blacks make up a disproportionate percentage of violent gangs throughout many countries in the West and South America, not racism but fact. Check it out on reputable sites. What other popular culture has songs glorifying violence? I think lack of father figures is a big factor as this black guy said in Philadephia.

Fifty teens arrested in Philadelphia curfew to fight 'social network mobs' - Telegraph

Gang culture influences kids so they don't bother to try. Why work in a boring low paid job if there are more glamorous well paid possibilities? They also damage peceptions of blacks so people are wary of the ones who do try and they are less likely to get proper jobs. It's a negative spiral. Cracking down on gangs will be doing most blacks a favour and I suspect most will be darn glad of it if it's done properly.

[Mich the Tester]

Very over simplistic to blame it all in that (especially the looting which was largely about people seizing their opportunities) although it is a factor. Blacks make up a disproportionate percentage of violent gangs throughout many countries in the West and South America, not racism but fact. Check it out on reputable sites. What other popular culture has songs glorifying violence? I think lack of father figures is a big factor as this black guy said in Philadephia.

Fifty teens arrested in Philadelphia curfew to fight 'social network mobs' - Telegraph

Gang culture influences kids so they don't bother to try. Why work in a boring low paid job if there are more glamorous well paid possibilities? They also damage peceptions of blacks so people are wary of the ones who do try and they are less likely to get proper jobs. It's a negative spiral. Cracking down on gangs will be doing most blacks a favour and I suspect most will be darn glad of it if it's done properly.

Hmmm, 'blacks make up etc' is a generalisation; what I've noticed is specifically white kids in London taking over an accent that can only be described as a drunk from the north-east doing a poor imitation of a Yardie from some grotty neighbourhood in Kingston; I think Starkey was trying to refer to this and if so he had a valid point; stupid of him to say that 'whites have become black' as if white people were paragons of moral behaviour before they met a black man.

[xoggoth]

Hmmm, 'blacks make up etc' is a generalisation

Indeed or, to put it another way, it is a statistic. Trying to find solutions for these self inflicted problems is a nightmare but any policies should be based on statistics and realities rather than individual observations or what we think we should think.

[Mich the Tester]

Indeed or, to put it another way, it is a statistic. Trying to find solutions for these self inflicted problems is a nightmare but any policies should be based on statistics and realities rather than individual observations or what we think we should think.

Yep, but how do you explain this wierd phenomenon of kids from London trying to speak Jamaican patois? OK, I've been away from England for a long time, so maybe I notice it more, but it strikes me that many white Londoners nowadays sound more like a crap Bob Marley impersonation than Chas and Dave.

[xoggoth]

Dunno. Not my area/generation, but people do get influenced by all sorts of stuff. I think we all went round going "wow man, far out" and in some ways the 60s/early 70s ethos was pretty damaging too, a lot of promising people tuned in and dropped out. Knew a few.

Most had both parents and it was a fairly middle class thing, so feckless parents or fatherless families as I said above are not totally a reason for current problems. One thinks "this is the main cause" or "that is the main cause" and then find it doesn't really fit. The only real cause is probably that most people are impressionable idiots.

[minestrone]

I recall when Radio 1 had it's shake down about 15 years ago and kicked out DLT and the like it swung totally towards the london urban music scene which really not that many people listen to, now we have droves of white kids thinking they are in the bloods.