There's good countries and there's bad countries

[snaw]

It is a nonsense to suggest that there is some huge disparity between reactionary government and enlightened people as Snaw seems to be suggesting.

I am? I'm not even sure I know what that means.

All I was suggesting was that I've met good and bad people (i.e. ones I like, and ones I think are dickheads) from lots of countries, inc some on that list labelled bad. Those people from countries which have bad governments generally speaking are aware that their governments aren't the best.

That's based on personal experience, so maybe I only encounter a certain kind of person, but unless you're brainwashed it's pretty hard not to be aware that their are better/freer societies in the world than the crappy one you're living in.

Which part of that is a nonsense, or you trying to put words into my mouth again Xog?

[Gibbon]

All the "Arab spring" will bring about is a change of dictatorship because those societies are culturally 100 years away from being ready for democracy.

I disagree, they may never be ready for democracy and neither are we. We haven't got democracy, just an elected oligarchy. We as ordinary people have very little power and yet we sneer at countries that haven't got our enlightened 'democracy', fecking bollocks.

[sasguru]

I disagree, they may never be ready for democracy and neither are we. We haven't got democracy, just an elected oligarchy. We as ordinary people have very little power and yet we sneer at countries that haven't got our enlightened 'democracy', fecking bollocks.

Asd part of the oligarchy, I heartily concur.
Lond may it last.

[xoggoth]

you trying to put words into my mouth again Xog

Just looked to me like another of those extrapolations from nice people you've met to argue that there is little wrong with a society. Nearly everyone one meets is a nice person, it doesn't mean to say that collectively their society cannot have major issues and they may be ones which spring from majority opinion.

More specifically, I think that unless a regime is propped up by external forces as under the British empire or the USSR, it cannot survive without support of at least a fair proportion of its population. Every successful dictator is adept at rewarding and exploiting greivances and rivalries to keep as many onside as possible.

[xoggoth]

sneer at countries that haven't got our enlightened 'democracy'

I agree it's a poor semblance of a democracy but it's clearly a lot nearer to one than you would get in some countries.

[shaunbhoy]

I agree it's a poor semblance of a democracy but it's clearly a lot nearer to one than you would get in some countries.

Ah yes, but we have the freedom to be slightly miffed about it.............as long as we don't want to get too vocal about it lest the Police use us for ninepin practice.

[snaw]

Just looked to me like another of those extrapolations from nice people you've met to argue that there is little wrong with a society. Nearly everyone one meets is a nice person, it doesn't mean to say that collectively their society cannot have major issues and they may be ones which spring from majority opinion.

More specifically, I think that unless a regime is propped up by external forces as under the British empire or the USSR, it cannot survive without support of at least a fair proportion of its population. Every successful dictator is adept at rewarding and exploiting greivances and rivalries to keep as many onside as possible.

Ach the 1st part is wrong, cause I didn't say that and the 2nd part is bollocks cause history shows you all you need is the money and the guns to keep a majority of the population down. Of course there's going to be a 'fair' portion of the population supporting them, there has to be enough critical mass to wield the guns etc to keep the majority down - but fair isn't a lot of people, generally. And to somehow imply the rest deserve it is, or that they are in any way the majority is rubbish.

Sorry Xoggy, but yer talking pish. IMHO.

[DodgyAgent]

I disagree, they may never be ready for democracy and neither are we. We haven't got democracy, just an elected oligarchy. We as ordinary people have very little power and yet we sneer at countries that haven't got our enlightened 'democracy', fecking bollocks.

It is the easiest thing in the world to say that "we have no democracy". It is easy to argue no matter what system would be in place. So I think that when people make these statements they should be forced (democratically of course) to explain what they understand a democracy should be.

[sasguru]

It is the easiest thing in the world to say that "we have no democracy". It is easy to argue no matter what system would be in place. So I think that when people make these statements they should be forced (democratically of course) to explain what they understand a democracy should be.

Easy.
This is a much better system than we have:

Politics of Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sadly even Germany has a more democratic system than we have. the pupil has proved more adept than the master.

And the reason is simply that our political class of whatever party is wedded to too much power (historical reasons may have something to do with this).