IQ and Race

[bogeyman]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4785574.stm

Why are his views "abhorrent" if there is genuine data backing his claim?

Discuss, abuse Chico or post some breasts on Test Please Delete.

Unfortunalely, one can rarely discuss this matter in an atmosphere that is condusive to intelligent debate because the question is so politically loaded.

IMHO, black people (Afro-Caribeans) do indeed appear less 'intelligent' than Eurasians when measured on the IQ scale.

However, the IQ test was designed by Westerners, and does not account for 'different' ways of thinking.

The value of particular kinds of knowledge does not form a part of the IQ test - it's all geared around the Western Anglo mindset.

In the West we have lots of 'cleverness' but in Africa they have a lot of 'wisdom'.

God only knows why their wisdom has let them down so badly.

[The Lone Gunman]

Well the reason I posted this is because I disagree that there are certain issues that cannot or should not be discussed. You may argue against his theory provided you have marshalled your evidence (if you have some).
But a knee jerk reaction calling him a racist is wrong.

I agree. This silly PC culture we have become victim to is clouding the reality. If the evidence points to lower IQs then anyone should be allowed to say so without fear of being labelled racist. I dont see why a Chief Constable cant say the majority of crime is commited by ethnic minorities if that is his experience. The proportion of minorities in our prisons is not a sign of racism it is a sign of who commits the crimes. When was the last drug related drive by you saw where the police were looking for a white guy?
He also makes the point that the figures show some outstanding IQs in the tests and I am sure he will agree with the woman who states that upbringing and culture contribute to the figures, but even she says the he has the right to state his opinion based on the figures.

[ratewhore]

Reminds me of when Paul Condon got it in the neck for his statement on the majority of street crime being carried out by young black males of a certain age group.

And yes, they were based in factual evidence. There are unfortunately, some things you just aren't allowed to state these days...

[IR35 Avoider]

White people on average are inferior sprinters

Last year I read an article on the (threads) subject that was written by Malcolm Gladwell for the New Yorker. I think that on the subject of black athletic (out)performance he said it could be explained by greater variability. In other words, black people are on average no better than white, but the variability in their performance is much greater, so the best blacks are better than the best whites.

In his article and elsewhere I think it has been said that something like 95% of all human genetic diversity occurs within Africa - I think this is what leads to greater variation in performance within black population.

This argument sounds plausible to me. If true, and applied to intelligence, I think it might mean the most intelligent blacks were more intelligent than the equivalent groups of whites. (Can't remember what if anything he said about the claim of a difference in average intelligence. However when I heard this controversy on the radio, it was said the claim related to blacks in sub-Saharan Africa, so I think the difference could be related to nutrition rather than a genetic deficit.)

(I read the article on the web. It's worth tracking down - he writes lots of interesting stuff. For example, another article covered the difference between "panicking" and "choking." Panicking is using subconscious mind when thinking clearly and logically would be better, "choking" is applying conscious effort when relying on subconscious (reflexes conditioned by training) would be more appropriate.)

[VectraMan]

If you come from a poor social background then I guess you are more likely to be dumb? And since blacks make up the majority of those who inhabit the poor social areas then I guess this russkie aint really telling us anything we dont already know.

But then dumb people are more likely to be poor, and if intelligence is genetic (i.e. passed on from your parents), poor and dumb people will have children who are more likely to be poor and dumb. So I don't think you can conclude that it's poorer education standards that leads to more poor people being dumb. Perhaps education standards are every bit as good in poor areas, but the children are just genuinely less intelligent and so it appears they do worse?

But you can't say that.

[PerlOfWisdom]

People are poor because they are dumb, not the other way round.

[The Lone Gunman]

People are poor because they are dumb, not the other way round.

Nobody is born dumb (except those with medical or mental conditions), but being poor stops them developing any skills they might have. HTH.

[bogeyman]

But then dumb people are more likely to be poor, and if intelligence is genetic (i.e. passed on from your parents), poor and dumb people will have children who are more likely to be poor and dumb. So I don't think you can conclude that it's poorer education standards that leads to more poor people being dumb. Perhaps education standards are every bit as good in poor areas, but the children are just genuinely less intelligent and so it appears they do worse?

But you can't say that.

Well exactly - in a nutshell my friend!

Billions are spent every year keeping up this pretence that 'we are all equal and of equal ability'.

It's utter crap of course, but you're not allowed to even breath this idea in the face of the govt. or local authorities.

The sooner we wake up to the fact that some types of people are more prone to be criminals then the better we will be foir it.

[PRC1964]

Survival of the fittest may come into play too.

To do well in a rural economy needs different skills to those that suceed in a city based economy.

[Fungus]

It's all very well saying something along the lines of "On average green people are not as clever as blue people". But the problem then is that when you meet a green person, you are biased to thinking that (s)he is thick, whereas (s) might be above average, or below average, or plain average. So the statistic tells you nothing whatsoever about the individual. So in a sense the statistic is meaningless, or at least pretty much useless.

Secondly, how is intelligence measured? IQ tests are as already mentioned notorious for being biased in favour of certain cultural viewpoints. A detached house with windows and a chimney is considered a typical house. If you think a mud hut is normal, then you might fail an IQ test question.

Lastly, diet has a significant role in intelligence, and poor people on a bad diet will suffer due to malnutrition. And yes I reckon that malnutrition due to a poor diet is commonplace in the UK. They've done experiments in prisons which proved that diet significantly influenced the behaviour of inmates: and yet we still feed them tulipe.

Fungus