Average salary

[Alf W]

Thomas

An apology. My cheap and uncalled for shot at AtW seems to have derailed what I'm sure would have been a most informed debate on average salary levels.

[ThomasSoerensen]

Thomas

An apology. My cheap and uncalled for shot at AtW seems to have derailed what I'm sure would have been a most informed debate on average salary levels.

no problem - it is how things work here.

I just thought that a discussion around the incomes was more interesting than a discussion of mean and median.

But I think the discussion about median and mean still proved sas to be an ass

What do you think of the income numbers? Are they what you expected?

[Mich the Tester]

no problem - it is how things work here.

I just thought that a discussion around the incomes was more interesting than a discussion of mean and median.

But I think the discussion about median and mean still proved sas to be an ass

What do you think of the income numbers? Are they what you expected?

I find it quite scary to think about living off 1500 euros a month in western Europe. I guess 1500 euros per month somewhere in Latin America or even one of the more peaceful spots in Africa gives you a fantastic life, but not in Germany. In fact I know a guy who lives in Buenos Aires, making about 20,000 dollars a year as a personal trainer. His income is nothing like it once was in Europe, but his lifestyle is very comfortable indeed. He gave up SAP consulting in Holland, bought two houses in Argentina for cash, has no mortgage, no kids and can visit the beach every day.

[Alf W]

It does say per person after tax.

So, 1500 Euros is about £1300 in real money. Family of three / four. Post tax monthly income of £3900 / £5200.

Seems pretty high to me.

[ThomasSoerensen]

I find it quite scary to think about living off 1500 euros a month in western Europe. I guess 1500 euros per month somewhere in Latin America or even one of the more peaceful spots in Africa gives you a fantastic life, but not in Germany. In fact I know a guy who lives in Buenos Aires, making about 20,000 dollars a year as a personal trainer. His income is nothing like it once was in Europe, but his lifestyle is very comfortable indeed. He gave up SAP consulting in Holland, bought two houses in Argentina for cash, has no mortgage, no kids and can visit the beach every day.

Yes, but I also guess that life as a single mother with a crap job is not too much fun.
I know the youngster permies here at clientco get around 6000 EUR per month pefore tax, which probably leaves 5000 EUR as post tax.
There is still far to 1500 EUR per month
I wonder if anyone actually get a salary ending with 1500 EUR post tax per month.
Or if it is people with jobs having salaries starting with 3000-4000 EUR and people on benefits getting by on 800-1000 EUR in a truly crappy lifestyle?

[Mich the Tester]

It does say per person after tax.

So, 1500 Euros is about £1300 in real money. Family of three / four. Post tax monthly income of £3900 / £5200.

Seems pretty high to me.

1500 per month, not per week.

[sasguru]

But I think the discussion about median and mean still proved sas to be an ass

Your 1st post on this thread still doesn't tell us which average is used in your German figures.

Its an important point without which the whole thread is meaningless.

Better to be an ass than talk crap without even knowing it

[ThomasSoerensen]

I just learned that the long term unemployment benefit in Germany is 359 EUR per month per person (+paid housing) .
This is of course before additional benefits for children etc kicks in. If you have no available savings you get 150 EUR extra and if you have no retirement savings in a pension plan you get another 250 EUR.
So a single person with nothing gets 359 + 150 + 250 = 759 EUR per month and housing paid for (there are strict restrictions on housing, I think it is 50 square meters per family at the moment)

That does not sound like too much fun.

[Mich the Tester]

Yes, but I also guess that life as a single mother with a crap job is not too much fun.
I know the youngster permies here at clientco get around 6000 EUR per month pefore tax, which probably leaves 5000 EUR as post tax.
There is still far to 1500 EUR per month
I wonder if anyone actually get a salary ending with 1500 EUR post tax per month.
Or if it is people with jobs having salaries starting with 3000-4000 EUR and people on benefits getting by on 800-1000 EUR in a truly crappy lifestyle?

The staff at McD's, the cleaners at your office, the labourers carrying heavy stuff around a building site; they're mostly on about minimum wage which is about 1200 per month before tax in NL, and have no job security, no secondary benefits, no real way out and very little in the way of people in their social circles who can help them to do better. I find this a threat to social cohesion.

[IR35 Avoider]

To me the word "average" always means mean.

I see Wikipedia defines "average" in the way that the majority here have stated, and I recently became aware (to my surprise) that the UK school statistics syllabus also uses that terminology, so I will allow that that is the correct definition.

However, in that case, the word is of no use as a technical term except to those studying statistics at a very rudimentary level. Those boasting of their knowledge of this definition appear slightly ridiculous to me, since a word with such a loose meaning has no place in any conversation precise enough to mention numbers.

I can't think of any context in which it would be acceptable to say the "average" is X (a number) where by average one meant the median. In an informal context (i.e. outside of an academic paper) one might use the term "average" to denote the mean, but one would never use it to denote the median.

I challenge all those who've pompously (if correctly) asserted that the median is a type of average to find an example of a statistically literate person describing a number which is a median as an "average." (Educational materials covering introductory statistics don't count.) (Actually this is a trick challenge; apart from being impossible to prove (how do we know the number is a median if they don't say so?) there's also the issue that if they do do it I will respond that that by definition disqualifies them from being called statistically literate.)

(I should mention that I studied statistics for two years at university, and I'm pretty sure we were taught that "average" = "mean". It was a long time ago though, so maybe I've forgotten. As far as I can recall, the median and the mode weren't mentioned much as concepts after the first week of the first year, so the issue of what "average" meant wouldn't have been in focus for more than one lecture. Possibly we always used more precise terminology, so the issue never came up.)