Big Fat Gypsy Wedding - I'm confused

[Old Greg]

I use Catholic in the loosest sense of the term... but you're probably right, the ones at the missus' school are simply "travellers" but I don't know of what variety.

Very nice - of course the Church of England is part of the catholic church, but not the Roman Catholic Church.

[OwlHoot]

Gypsies (travellers?) have a strong culture and tradition, chavs are just bums. Most seem to be catholic AFAIK - my wife teaches in a RC school and they have something like 25% travellers enrolled there, attracted by the RC part.

"chav" comes from a Romany word, something like "charva", meaning child or junior

Same as the word "cad" comes from French "cadet", also meaning junior. (The original "cads" were local kids who would run errands and so on for boys at Eton College.)

Gypsies had a hard time in England in Tudor times after the Reformation. It was even a capital offence for non-Gypsies to consort with them or pretend to be one. So a lot (probably most) emigrated to Ireland, where catholicism was less frowned on.

[d000hg]

Very nice - of course the Church of England is part of the catholic church, but not the Roman Catholic Church.

Now your splitting hares and being pedantic.

[Old Greg]

Gypsies had a hard time in England in Tudor times after the Reformation. It was even a capital offence for non-Gypsies to consort with them or pretend to be one. So a lot (probably most) emigrated to Ireland, where catholicism was less frowned on.

There aren't many Romany Gypsies in Ireland and Irish Travellers are a distinct group. Irish Traveller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They get a hard time. In my wife's home town, there was a wedding that was cancelled when the venue found out they were Travellers, so the excellent local Bishop hosted it in the bishop's palace grounds. He's an unusually fine fella.

[sasguru]

So a lot (probably most) emigrated to Ireland, where catholicism was less frowned on.

Ah that explains it. Where they became, as CM calls them, "tinkers".
Physically they don't look like gypsies from Eastern Europe - I'm guessing they inter-married with the local population, so that now they have a preponderance of Irish physical characteristics?

[Old Greg]

Now your splitting hares and being pedantic.

hairs

[Old Greg]

Ah that explains it. Where they became, as CM calls them, "tinkers".
Physically they don't look like gypsies from Eastern Europe - I'm guessing they inter-married with the local population, so that now they have a preponderance of Irish physical characteristics?

Again - Irish Travellers not Gypsies. But Gypsies throughout Europe tend not to be genetically (racially>) distinct from the local populations. This is why they form a special category along with Jews and Sikh in race discrimination legislation. There has been inter-marriage throughout but the customs / languages / dialects have remained alive.

Out of interest 'lollipop' is a Romany word, meaning...

[cailin maith]

Ah that explains it. Where they became, as CM calls them, "tinkers".
Physically they don't look like gypsies from Eastern Europe - I'm guessing they inter-married with the local population, so that now they have a preponderance of Irish physical characteristics?

Yep, you can usually spot 'em a mile away, dressed like hookers, long hair, massive earings, little kids always in wellies.

In my home town there is a family who have lived there forever (almost!) and they had their caravans in the same spot for as long as I can remember, but then the Grand Father died and the younger ones became settled and more integrated.

Same as OG says though, they are never accepted, any hotel or whatever won't let them have a wedding or anything like that. There tends to be maybe one venue in every county that has a reputation for accepting traveller functions but for that, it won't get other functions from the settled community.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Whilst one should take individuals on their merits, it's not as though the discrimination and resentment among the settled community is all one way or entirely without foundation.

Among my parents generation, Gypsies were tolerated because their presence didn't automatically mean an upswing in crime and the total desecration of any area they set up camp in.

No doubt some travellers are still like this, but in many cases their blatant disregard of planning, road traffic and pretty much any law and their failure to pay any taxes and total destruction of any site they occupy is bound to get up people's noses. A bit.

I was particularly shocked by that Police docu soap where an innocent woman in an MX5 was killed by a drunken Pikey driving a BMW X5. It was patently clear who was responsible, but the community ran to his assistance and closed ranks to destroy any evidence. Very hard to feel any sympathy for that.

[DimPrawn]