Student revolts; why not work AND study?

[GillsMan]

I do think that the full-time university lifestyle produces a better independence of thought than home-based distance learning.

Fwiw, I think the OP is spot on. There's no way I'd have done well at a degree when I was 18/19. I was a bit too feckless. Now, with industry experience, I'm pishing all over my OU degree (Computing and Business). It's hard work, but it's easier because of my experience. At £5,500 for my degree (with hons) it's a hell of a lot more reasonable too.

I have to disagree with the quoted bit. While it's undoubtedly true for some people, I don't think you can make a blanket statement for everyone. It's certainly not true in my case.

[Gibbon]

I don't think you can study to as high a level part-time. The high-pressure immersion (I am talking about decent universities here) forces you to think at more of a velocity. For instance if you've got a week to write an essay and the whole week to do it in, you might suddenly get interested in a single aspect of it, and be able to read about it in depth. That won't work if you've got to keep popping off for your shifts at the pie factory.

I do think that the full-time university lifestyle produces a better independence of thought than home-based distance learning.

Agreed TL. As some of you know I'm doing OU at the moment and it is quite frustrating not having the time to read a lot of the background material. Some weeks it's quite difficult to get all the 18+ hours in as well. Whilst in general it works well for me I don't think it's really for 18 yr olds doing all this work essentially alone. Yes there are tutorials and and you can email/phone your tutor but I can't see how that compares to full-time courses. OU degrees are quite well regarded but mainly because they show commitment, determination and excellent organisational skills. My friend has a son who has just started at Oxford and they strongly deter students from working in term time.

Myself, I intend to do a full-time masters after hopefully getting a degree. This hopefully will coincide with the mortgage being paid off.

[Gibbon]

Fwiw, I think the OP is spot on. There's no way I'd have done well at a degree when I was 18/19. I was a bit too feckless. Now, with industry experience, I'm pishing all over my OU degree (Computing and Business). It's hard work, but it's easier because of my experience. At £5,500 for my degree (with hons) it's a hell of a lot more reasonable too.

I have to disagree with the quoted bit. While it's undoubtedly true for some people, I don't think you can make a blanket statement for everyone. It's certainly not true in my case.

Excellent unwitting testimony. You are pishing allover because of prior experience so the learning curve isn't as steep. As an aside computing doesn't take much thinking about anyway.

[Mich the Tester]

Of course, distance learning isn't the solution for everyone, and some courses require a lot of hands on work. You probably wouldn't be able to study medicine without actually dealing with patients and being at lectures. However, for some sciences the OU is doing good work in providing home experiments or experiments at other universities close to students' homes, and I think the practise of studying at home or at a local study centre and working over t'internet with students across the world helps to build the skills many graduates will need in the workplace.

I wonder how many of the protesting Stewed Ents really are studying the kind of subjects where an academic hothouse approach is necessary or beneficial, and how many of them are studying things that could be done very well in distance education.

Obviously, for some very academic types, the hothouse approach will always be needed, but most students are not really academic; they're just a bit brainier than average and want a piece of paper to prove it.

[VectraMan]

I think the question mark over an OU degree is "why didn't you do a normal degree in the first place?", but maybe now with tuition fees it's becoming more acceptable.

My last couple of ClientCo's have had students on sandwich type course placements, and I think that's what ought to be filling the gap here. Students in theory study for 30 weeks per year, which in theory means they could be working for an employer and gaining valuable real world experience for the other 22.

[Mich the Tester]

I think the question mark over an OU degree is "why didn't you do a normal degree in the first place?", but maybe now with tuition fees it's becoming more acceptable.

I think you've part answered the question there; financial good sense but also a desire to get out and work. I once had a negative reaction from an employer who asked me precisely that question and then proceeded to act all superior and long nosed because he'd spent 4 years getting his degree at Leiden. It was a bit annoying at the time, but with hindsight wasn't the sort of workplace that would have suited me anyway. I'm not one for posing with academic titles after one's name.

Yours,

Mich the Tester BSc, PgDip, MIoD

[Halo Jones]

Having just completed a BSc part time while holding down a full time job (day release for Uni from company) I feel I can comment – the biggest issue is time, all spare time is spent studying not a lot of room left for fun. You need a fair whack of dedication to complete the course.

The whole full time uni thing seems to be more about lifestyle than common sense.

As for age it is the norm to get the degree after A levels when it is perceived that you can have more fun & avoid the whole job / responsibility thing for a while.

I started my degree at 30 it was daunting but I was more motivated as I knew the reasons why I was doing it.

So yes you can work & study but only as long as you are motivated & have a good reason to

[Mich the Tester]

Having just completed a BSc part time while holding down a full time job (day release for Uni from company) I feel I can comment – the biggest issue is time, all spare time is spent studying not a lot of room left for fun. You need a fair whack of dedication to complete the course.

The whole full time uni thing seems to be more about lifestyle than common sense.

As for age it is the norm to get the degree after A levels when it is perceived that you can have more fun & avoid the whole job / responsibility thing for a while.

I started my degree at 30 it was daunting but I was more motivated as I knew the reasons why I was doing it.

So yes you can work & study but only as long as you are motivated & have a good reason to

As someone who's done the OU thing,

Anyway, I think the self discipline is part of a kind of selection process; only those who have it will get the degree. I'd say that's a good thing as I don't believe that 50% of the population are cut out for university study, as Mr B Liar seemed to think.

[GillsMan]

Excellent unwitting testimony. You are pishing allover because of prior experience so the learning curve isn't as steep. As an aside computing doesn't take much thinking about anyway.

Yes, that was kind of my point. I disagree wholeheartedly with your aside fwiw. Learning the foundations of coding, learning binary, learning the more technical side of things has taken a massive amount of thinking and concentration from me.

[Mich the Tester]

Learning the foundations of coding, learning binary, learning the more technical side of things has taken a massive amount of thinking and concentration from me.

yeah but u is a bit dim innit, sorry, cut that; you may be better suited to a career in the dynamic and rewarding field of systems testing!