Has the financial shenanigans of the past two years changed your mind about the Euro?

[d000hg]

Well?

Do you mean generally, or for the UK?

[DodgyAgent]

quite,

which is exactly the same argument you gave for Germany and Greece and Spain etc

so cutting a long story short, you have indeed turned full circle on yourself and admitted that Britain and Germany are very much alike in their behaviour on these matters

have rest old time, you've achieved a lot today and should take personal satisfaction and be more at peace with yourself and your views on Europe and Germany

Milan.

Indeed had the Euro been confined to the UK and Germany then it would have had more chance of working

[VectraMan]

The interest rates are set according to the whole EU economy and as the Euro economy is totally dominated by the Germans and the French then it stands to argument that they suit the French and Germans.

But as Britain is the second biggest nation and third biggest economy in Europe, the policy would have had to have been adjusted to suit Britain as well if we had been part of the Euro. We're not Greece, or Ireland, or Portugal, and what applies to them wouldn't have necessarily applied to us.

Britain was saved by virtue of being out of the Euro. If we had joined the Euro prices of UK products and services would have been at the level of when we joined £1.50. As it is our currency is relatively weak and we are able to export goods and services at competitive rates.

Is that really true? Have we really had an export boom because of our weakened currency? Or has the effect of making everything we buy more expensive had a greater effect? I'm not conviced the effect is positive overall (and people like my Dad who wants to retire to France have effectively lost a large chunk of their savings).

[Doggy Styles]

Do you mean generally, or for the UK?

Rightly or wrongly I assumed that if someone is in favour of the Euro, they would automatically be in favour of the UK being in it.

But I stand to be corrected. Does anyone think the euro is a good idea but doesn't want the UK in it?

[scooterscot]

I understand that argument, but surely that is small beer compared to the big economic problems it has caused?

Don't knock it until you've tried it. Many people in my office out here speak of it as a plus and encourages moving around europe even if only for a long weekend.

[d000hg]

Rightly or wrongly I assumed that if someone is in favour of the Euro, they would automatically be in favour of the UK being in it.

But I stand to be corrected. Does anyone think the euro is a good idea but doesn't want the UK in it?

I like the Euro but I don't want to have the Euro. However that's partly just because I like having our own currency, just as I like red telephone boxes and Yorkshire pudding.

[scooterscot]

As many have already said, each nation depends on interest rates and currency fluctuations to rebalance their economies, and those in the eurozone no longer have those options.

They are only left with the option of increasing taxes, which lowers their growth, which will in turn make their economies worse, with a reduction in standard of living and other problems that brings.

So in the end they depend on handouts from others, which drags down everyone.

I would argue that less is better when managing economies the scale of europe. The more tinkering a government can do the more difficult it becomes for an investor to measure the risk. Confidence will return to europe a lot sooner than the uk because of this very reason.

If I were a tycoon sitting in the far east looking to invest, where would I be shopping, the UK or the EU? There's safety in numbers, people with euros in their pocket know this, the worse is yet to come and uk is ill prepared.

[EternalOptimist]

no

[Mich the Tester]

The Germans have now managed to conquer Europe without going to war.

At risk of being very un-PC here, I'd actually be quite happy if that was true, at least in a budgetary and economic sense. Ze Germans have a good reputation for fiscal conservatism, based on strict constitutional laws that require budgetary discipline from the federal government. They also have a good record on individual liberty (at least, post 1945), a thriving culture, solid industry, good education and some very fine Rieslings. If their attitude of enjoying life within sensible financial limits were to rub off on the rest of Europe, we´d all be better off in the long run.

Many Germans actually feel that they´ve given up a lot of power to be part of the Euro; remember that the D-Mark was a very solid currency that served them well.

As for 'had the Euro been confined to the UK and Germany then it would have had more chance of working', I'd add a few to that list; Holland, Luxumburg, Austria, Denmark certainly; if anything I'd support a sort of 'Hanseatic euro', which includes those countries with a perfect credit rating and a strong tradition of economic and fiscal discipline, stemming from a long history of trade. I know, it sounds a bit Nietzschian 'uebermensch', but I genuinely think that northern Europeans share an economic culture that makes them compatible.

[doodab]

The Germans call it schadenfreude. We call it "come uppance". The Germans want to continually raise their standard of living by manufacturing goods that they expect everyone else to buy. They wont consume anything themselves yet they expect the rest of us to buy their stuff. To further their own ambition they then want to stop competition from other countries (who also happen to buy their goods) by imposing the Euro on them. their banks then lend the so called Piigs the money to buy their goods.

So all the while the Germans are looking after number one and having everything their own way. We can begin to see the hypocrisy of the Germans here. So it serves them damn well right that their efforts to control Europe have backfired and that they are now having to bail everyone else out of a mess that they created in the first place.

The Germans call this "Quatsch".