Britains Trillion Pound Horror - Channel 4

[Ignis Fatuus]

It's gotta be paid back at some point. If we don't start now, when will we? The longer it goes on like this, the more money wasted on paying interest.

This, in itself, is true. Except for the word "wasted". If you intended to get into debt in order to achieve something of greater importance to you than than the interest, then the interest is not wasted, it is simply the price for what you got. Cf a mortgage. The interest is not wasted, it's the price of the loan that got you the ability to livein that house.

The point about repayxment and the timing is a good one, but it's just a starting question and certainly does not imply the answer.

[EternalOptimist]

This, in itself, is true. Except for the word "wasted". If you intended to get into debt in order to achieve something of greater importance to you than than the interest, then the interest is not wasted, it is simply the price for what you got. Cf a mortgage. The interest is not wasted, it's the price of the loan that got you the ability to livein that house.

The point about repayxment and the timing is a good one, but it's just a starting question and certainly does not imply the answer.

er...
the phrase 'bollocks' springs to mind.

thats like saying the water that leaks out of the mains is not wasted, its just the price we pay for not spending more on maintenance and repair.

you seem to be suggesting there is nothing to be done about it, to plan it better, or to handle it better.

you can get two offers for a mortgage, one more expensive than the other. the more expensive one is a waste

[MarillionFan]

To turn us into a Hong Kong super power with manufacturing capabilities you would need a cheap, in-exhaustible supply of willing labour. Which in the UK doesn't exist.

So we would have to bring in a number of additional Bobs(Rage) to do the jobs we don't want to do.

What was interesting in last nights Question time was the cheer that went up for the chap who said in answer to the question about 'Why should an out of work accountant be made to clean the streets' that he 'works two jobs cleaning tables, waitering, doing whatever when he doesn't have any main work in his dancing career. It's all about work ethic'

Thats why we will never get out of this slump, most don't have the work ethic.

As I watched this program last night, both myself and Mrs MF discussed moving to Asia.

[GreenLabel]

High taxation squashes economic activity and growth.
Wild assertion unsupported by evidence.

[sasguru]

Problem is the private sector in the UK is now too small to employ the people from the public sector that are being cut.
Not everyone can be an entrepreneur.
And the big corps who had their origin in the UK have a trans-national perspective - they don't care what happens here, they are busy building future markets in Asia. In that sense outsourcing makes sense as (1) you cut costs now (2) you create a market for your products in the future.
Unless people are willing to cut their expectations, and standards of living there is no solution.
We cannot go on the way we are.

[MarillionFan]

Problem is the private sector in the UK is now too small to employ the people from the public sector that are being cut.
Not everyone can be an entrepreneur.
And the big corps who had their origin in the UK have a trans-national perspective - they don't care what happens here, they are busy building future markets in Asia. In that sense outsourcing makes sense as (1) you cut costs now (2) you create a market for your products in the future.
Unless people are willing to cut their expectations, and standards of living there is no solution.
We cannot go on the way we are.

Frankly I think the changes to VAT and increased tax will kill the private sector even more.

I have already decided to chuck in the retail business as in a struggling market with the increases in prices I have already swallowed another 2.5% is just too much.

I pay £9000 in business rates. It includes nothing. I then have to pay extra to have my bins cleared(another £1000 per year). The local council has put parking restrictions all around my business, then pay traffic wardens to fine people who park, so they've stopped coming. A town centre manager so incompetent(paid for my the council) he organized the local Xmas festivities to clash with a major market town elsewhere, didn't advertise it and then has quit before he got pushed. So I have to pay additional advertising.

My council tax is £2500 per year. I get fined if I put my bins out on the wrong day.

I paid £50k in basic tax last year, excluding Corporation Tax. I had to pay tax to fly abroad. The cost of tax on petrol is ridiculous. I pay employers NI & employ six people.

In total I paid out something like £70-£80k in taxes. What's the point?

[GreenLabel]

In total I paid out something like £70-£80k in taxes. What's the point?

Ask Ignis. He'll have an answer.

[Ignis Fatuus]

Ask Ignis. He'll have an answer.

Don't be fatuous. Of course I have an answer.

Sorry MF, I like you but the answer is that your business is not viable and should fold. That's the market. I'd like to add that I admire you for trying.

As for all the other stuff from other posters, I repeat my plea for some comparisons to other countries. While France has 19.6% VAT and Germans has 19% VAT, and they have stronger economies than ours, I just don't buy the idea that 17.5% VAT is crippling us and 20% will finish us off.

While our debt per capita is less than Switzerland's and comparable with Germany's I don't buy the idea that it is our debt that is ruining us.

All these things might be plausible on their own (sensationalist programmes, articles, and posts depend on that) but if you look around at countries that are doing as we might aspire to be doing, you will see the same there too, which detracts from the simplistic idea that regulations, taxes, or debt are insurmountable problems that kill our economy.

[gingerjedi]

Sorry MF, I like you but the answer is that your business has been strangled by high taxation and a draconian, ineffective council. That's the market. I'd like to add that I admire you for trying.

FTFY

[sasguru]

Don't be fatuous. Of course I have an answer.

Sorry MF, I like you but the answer is that your business is not viable and should fold. That's the market. I'd like to add that I admire you for trying.

As for all the other stuff from other posters, I repeat my plea for some comparisons to other countries. While France has 19.6% VAT and Germans has 19% VAT, and they have stronger economies than ours, I just don't buy the idea that 17.5% VAT is crippling us and 20% will finish us off.

While our debt per capita is less than Switzerland's and comparable with Germany's I don't buy the idea that it is our debt that is ruining us.

All these things might be plausible on their own (sensationalist programmes, articles, and posts depend on that) but if you look around at countries that are doing as we might aspire to be doing, you will see the same there too, which detracts from the simplistic idea that regulations, taxes, or debt are insurmountable problems that kill our economy.

On the debt issue, our debt may be the same as Germany's (I'll take your word for it) but they have a lot more coming in as they are a much more successful economy.
It's not the amount of debt per se that's the problem - it's the ability to pay it off or service it.
For a country as for an individual.