What actually happens to people who'll lose benefits?

[shaunbhoy]

so you think that a clever system that stops most people spending their money on ale is both possible and will bring the numbers on the dole down to manageable levels

Of course it is.

and you accuse ME of talking utter bollox

In a nutshell.......Yes!

No one is suggesting that we give up and accept it, dont put words in my mouth

At least if I do that there will be SOMETHING sensible inside that cavernous noggin of yours.
HTH

[MrMark]

There are people in council housing who earn well over the 'average' wage, surely council housing should only be for people in need, rather than 'for life'.... and housing benefit should be capped, the only thing giving market rate rental subsidies does is make rent more expensive for everyone else, ie those who do work. If you can't afford to pay rent in central london then there is some disadvantage to being on benefits...

I know the point you're making, and it's difficult explaining to a middle class earner why they can't afford a flat in zones 1-3 London, yet people on the dole can.
The problem is that if you increase the rents, all that happens is the bill ends up being paid by the government via housing benefit. Plus, you also discourage people living there from seeking work, as often the type of job they can get (to start with) won't be enough to pay market rents.
Personally I think a "bribe" of say 25k should be given to any tenants willing to move to suitable accommodation in a low rent town like Nottingham or Sheffield (or even Glasgow). 25k may sound a lot, but the council would probably be able to sell the flat on at 200 or 300k.

[HairyArsedBloke]

I know the point you're making, and it's difficult explaining to a middle class earner why they can't afford a flat in zones 1-3 London, yet people on the dole can.
The problem is that if you increase the rents, all that happens is the bill ends up being paid by the government via housing benefit. Plus, you also discourage people living there from seeking work, as often the type of job they can get (to start with) won't be enough to pay market rents.
Personally I think a "bribe" of say 25k should be given to any tenants willing to move to suitable accommodation in a low rent town like Nottingham or Sheffield (or even Glasgow). 25k may sound a lot, but the council would probably be able to sell the flat on at 200 or 300k.

I don't know if this should have a or a

It's got ghetto and segregation stamped all over it. Think about what will happen. It will be a total fracking disaster - which means it will probably be policy soon.

[EternalOptimist]

Of course it is.



In a nutshell.......Yes!




At least if I do that there will be SOMETHING sensible inside that cavernous noggin of yours.
HTH

Even the most nutty problem needs input from all sides, strategic military problems need armchair generals, complex social problems need armchair experts, and people who have vast experience of being on the dole often require cosseted dickwits to come and point out that its not experience that matters .

Like I say, I can see the problem as clear as anyone. I cant see the solution though

I am out of this one now SB. its an exercise in being clever to some people, its a harsh reality to others

[GreenLabel]

It's hilarious that people call socialism the politics of envy. A lot of people seem to seriously envy those living on benefits - that seems odd to me.

There's a difference between envy and resentment.

[shaunbhoy]

Even the most nutty problem needs input from all sides, strategic military problems need armchair generals, complex social problems need armchair experts, and people who have vast experience of being on the dole often require cosseted dickwits to come and point out that its not experience that matters .

Like I say, I can see the problem as clear as anyone. I cant see the solution though

I am out of this one now SB. its an exercise in being clever to some people, its a harsh reality to others

Probably for the best.
I would not expect someone that was bereft of the ability to keep themselves in permanent employment, to hold the key to the problem of unemployment either.
I mean you would not expect someone that had managed to get themselves run over a dozen times to become a Traffic Awareness Czar would you?
No, leave such tricky issues to those with the vision to see potential solutions rather than endless problems.
You get back to wailing and gnashing your teeth.

[EternalOptimist]

Probably for the best.
I would not expect someone that was bereft of the ability to keep themselves in permanent employment, to hold the key to the problem of unemployment either.
I mean you would not expect someone that had managed to get themselves run over a dozen times to become a Traffic Awareness Czar would you?
No, leave such tricky issues to those with the vision to see potential solutions rather than endless problems.
You get back to wailing and gnashing your teeth.

very nice

[shaunbhoy]

very nice

Thought you were out?
You see?.....It is exactly that kind of dithering that prevents you seeing the big picture.

[MrMark]

I don't know if this should have a or a

It's got ghetto and segregation stamped all over it. Think about what will happen. It will be a total fracking disaster - which means it will probably be policy soon.

Well, I met folk in Nottingham who'd come from disadvantaged backgrounds (and yes sometimes from London/south-east) yet managed to make something of themselves. If you're talking "segregation" by the way, what do you think happens now?

[EternalOptimist]

Well, I met folk in Nottingham who'd come from disadvantaged backgrounds (and yes sometimes from London/south-east) yet managed to make something of themselves. If you're talking "segregation" by the way, what do you think happens now?

I think he's making a distinction between 'natural' pockets of deprivation, and deliberately shipping problem people into a locale