What's your take on the cartoon saga...

[Joe Black]

True. If the collective mindset is one which believes in principles which have more in common with the dark ages (for want of a better phrase), then whether it's a democracy or not is a mute point.

On the other hand, you could have the case where perhaps a majority of people would vote for a more liberal/civilised society, but the 'guardians' of those people, ala Iran, will do their best to ensure that although those people can vote they can only vote for those who support the party line...

[Fungus]

Ooooh, my turn to rant.

I see no difference between the extremist Muslins and Adolf Hitler. Both use(d) violence to achieve political aims and stifled free speech. Both are/were violently anti-semitic (in the sense of anti-Jewish, given that Arabs are semitic peoples). I was pleased that one of the UK Muslim reps made the same comparison.

Jack Straw is pathetic. He pandered to Bush. He pandered to Israel. Now he panders to Muslim loonies. And he has the gall to suggest that freedom of speech means using it responsibly. No it bloody well doesn't. It means freedom of speech. It means that people are free to be rude if they are so inclined.

Why weren't the demonstrators in London, who called for Westerners to be murdered, not arrested for incitement to commit crimes of violence?

[hyperD]

Freedom go to Hell!

There could be no more graphic illustration of the paradox at the heart of the cartoon row. These protesters were abusing the freedom of speach that are the foundation stones of British democracy. Yet, even as they exploited these hard-won liberties, they were calling for them to be abolished.

The protesters in London with their disgraceful slogans - "Behead those who Insult Islam", "Britain you will pay - 7/7 is on its way" - have made it all but impossible for a genuinely free debate on this issue to take place.

No sight has been more wretched than that of spineless Jack Straw last week kowtowing to militant Islam. "There is freedom of speech, we all respect that," the Foreign Secretary said, "but there is not any obligation to insult or to be gratuitously inflammatory." How pathetic that Mr Straw did not find time to condemn the outrageous behaviour of protesters at home and abroad.

The Government's response is especially feeble when compared to Margaret Thatcher's behaviour during the Rushdie Affair. Whatever her private feelings about the author, she and her Cabinet colleagues were resolute in their defence of his rights. Even before the fatwah, she declared that "it is an essential part of our democratic system that people who act within the law should be able to express their opinions freely".

Muslims expect, as they should, the benefits and protections of British pluralism but, in too many cases, baulk at the duties that are their corollary. One of those duties is to accept that, in a free society, there are occasions when each of us is bound to be offended.

(paraphrased from the telegraph)

I think what is more galling is the fact that the police decided not to arrest the protesters because "a risk assessment showed that the protest would erupt into a riot and people would be hurt". FFS!

What's the betting that if it had been a BNP rally or a bunch of middle class Englanders complaining about the war then the white vans would have been rolled in pronto?

The police are a disgrace and are representative of the type of society and government we have allowed this country to degenerate into.

[serverlad]

solution - vote conservative

can u imagine thatcher letting this happen
can u imagine major letting this happen
can u imagine howard letting this happen
can u imagine hague letting this happen
can u imagine cameron letting this happen

i tell u now no way- they stick up for their country.

labour is very corrupt smart but corrupt.

put em out of goverment then u have it things will be strong as a british country based on british values. thats why we have lost its way labour has ****ed it up big time on the moral side of things. the C**ts.

up to you but id vote conservative....britian is a colder harder place due to labour.

at least americans will be americans they know thier country french want to be french etc. but british has lost its way.....due to labour weasley ways. ur fault for votin them (the ones who did)

[Lucifer Box]

I see no difference between the extremist Muslins and Adolf Hitler. Both use(d) violence to achieve political aims and stifled free speech. Both are/were violently anti-semitic (in the sense of anti-Jewish, given that Arabs are semitic peoples). I was pleased that one of the UK Muslim reps made the same comparison.

You are absolutely correct, Fungus. If you read some of the middle-east dailies it is like reading a 1930s copy of Der Volkischer Beobachter (the Nazi party daily). They are full of Jewish conspiracies and anti-semitism: the Jews run the world, the Jews control the international banking system, the Jews are plotting to take over our country, etc., etc. Sickening stuff.

[AlfredJPruffock]

You are absolutely correct, Fungus. If you read some of the middle-east dailies it is like reading a 1930s copy of Der Volkischer Beobachter (the Nazi party daily). They are full of Jewish conspiracies and anti-semitism: the Jews run the world, the Jews control the international banking system, the Jews are plotting to take over our country, etc., etc. Sickening stuff.

Who does control the International Banking System ?

Any ideas ?

[Churchill]

Who does control the International Banking System ?

Any ideas ?

International Bankers.

[AlfredJPruffock]

International Bankers.

Thank you CH, he said with a sly handshake and one trouser at half mast.

But if any of you could put in a word for me I'd love to be a mason.
Masonry opens doors.

I'd be very quiet, I was a bit on edge just now but if I were a mason I'd sit at the back and not get in anyone's way.

[Mordac]

International Bankers.

A whole wunch of Bankers, in fact...

[AlfredJPruffock]

Rubbish.

We control the horizontal and the vertical, and the International Banks.

(This message is brought to you by Giant Alien Lizards for Total World Domination Inc. Plc).

Reassuring to know that our lifes are safely in your, erm legs ?

PS any chance of a Fiver till next week ?