Lowering salaries - it's the end of IT as we know it (and I feel fine)

[markinbrussels]

I might have been away from the UK market for too many years now but I can tell you that at first glance it doesn't look like anything at all what it used to be from the outside. And come on, we all agreed now to this, even the government - T H E R E I S N O S K I L L S H O R T A G E, many qualified local people are on a bench.

You live in CH? Why would you like to return to the UK?

[Francko]

Salaries are not falling for hard and rare skills and never will.

I used the search with the keyword "java" merely as indication of how little demand there is as normally "java" appears in most of the technical jobs (you can replace with .Net or similar if you wish).

I was instead talking about salaries/rates for what is a rare skills.

Let's take, ironically, as an example, SAS:

Find sas Jobs with jobserve.com

• Salary/Rate: £400/DAY
• Salary/Rate:£45k - £65k + Bonus + Benefits
• Salary/Rate:38k - 48k annual GBP
• Salary/Rate:c£450 per day
• Salary/Rate:£350 - £450 per Day
• Salary/Rate:£350 - 400 per Day

Do they look like the same as few years ago? Certainly not.


Salary (£ per annum)
Not Specified (22)
Below £15000 (0)
£15000-£20000 (3)
£20000-£25000 (16)
£25000-£30000 (30)
£30000-£40000 (48)
£40000-£50000 (42)
£50000-£75000 (29)
£75000-£100000 (12)
Above £100000 (5)
Rate (£ per hour) *Calc. Daily
Not Specified (42)
Below £10 (0)
£10-£20 (0)
£20-£30 (4)
£30-£40 (11)
£40-£50 (14)
£50-£65 (6)
£65-£80 (0)
£80-£100 (0)
Above £100 (0)

[shaunbhoy]

Let's take, ironically, as an example, SAS

There is something you don't see a lot of.............unless the discussion has wandered in the direction of the "Pitfalls of first cousins marrying".

[Francko]

You live in CH? Why would you like to return to the UK?

Hi Mark, we spoke once.

Still in Bern?

Well I am in the most beautiful part of CH but the unluckiest one for jobs and salaries. A difficult choice and we are still struggling to understand what's best. But one thing, I'd definitely prefer the UK instead of the german/french part of CH (unless I could do partial commuting like now but that's not easy to get nowadays, at least from the start).

[Scrag Meister]

Below is a sample of some data I have saved from IT Jobs watch for my skillset over the last couple of years.

Each set of 3 is 3 diff roles that I can do.

The job count at the worst point over the last few years was 9 for my best match, that was depressing.

Now as you can see they are a lot higher, rates seem to be a tad down on March 2010, but it isn't all bad, demand seems to be up if the ad count is any indicator.

I know its not concrete stats of any sort but gives a good idea.

Avg Change in
Rate job ads Ad Count Date
£410 -20.08%
£386 -26.37% 10/12/2008
£421 -24.16%

£525 10.52% 309
£550 37.50% 73 17/03/2010
£550 15.78% 57

£520 21.63% 390
£525 23.52% 106 01/09/2010
£525 23.52% 75

[TestMangler]

Stop 'doing' stuff and start 'managing' it

Rates are as good as they've ever been (almost) and LBGHBOSFAX swallowing up every contractor in the country, there's no shortage of stuff to do.

[aussielong]

You're still banging on about commodity "skills"? Are you thick?
When are you going to realise that knowing Java programming is not really adding value since any man and his dog can do it?
Salaries are not falling for hard and rare skills and never will.

Having java as your only skill is not going to get you much unless you are very very good.

But i'm getting 800 pound a day for java programming with an intermediate IB skill set so it aint all bad. This is in Aus. I was offered 750/day for a couple of contracts in London about 6 months ago so it doesnt appear to be too bad there for java programmers!

[Svalbaard]

You're still banging on about commodity "skills"? Are you thick?
When are you going to realise that knowing Java programming is not really adding value since any man and his dog can do it?
Salaries are not falling for hard and rare skills and never will.

I can't. Hence my post on the technical board yesterday. But then again, I'm not just "any man". Incidentally, neither can my dog - although she does have a good go at C#.

I'm not sure it's as bad out there as people make out. I'm on a very decent rate for my skillset and am receiving 3 or 4 calls a week from agencies about my availability. Mainly in London though, so I wouldn't be interested anyway.

Best of luck.

[sasguru]

I used the search with the keyword "java" merely as indication of how little demand there is as normally "java" appears in most of the technical jobs (you can replace with .Net or similar if you wish).

I was instead talking about salaries/rates for what is a rare skills.

Let's take, ironically, as an example, SAS:

Find sas Jobs with jobserve.com

• Salary/Rate: £400/DAY
• Salary/Rate:£45k - £65k + Bonus + Benefits
• Salary/Rate:38k - 48k annual GBP
• Salary/Rate:c£450 per day
• Salary/Rate:£350 - £450 per Day
• Salary/Rate:£350 - 400 per Day

Do they look like the same as few years ago? Certainly not.


Salary (£ per annum)
Not Specified (22)
Below £15000 (0)
£15000-£20000 (3)
£20000-£25000 (16)
£25000-£30000 (30)
£30000-£40000 (48)
£40000-£50000 (42)
£50000-£75000 (29)
£75000-£100000 (12)
Above £100000 (5)
Rate (£ per hour) *Calc. Daily
Not Specified (42)
Below £10 (0)
£10-£20 (0)
£20-£30 (4)
£30-£40 (11)
£40-£50 (14)
£50-£65 (6)
£65-£80 (0)
£80-£100 (0)
Above £100 (0)

Pointless post. "SAS" is a massive package with many different capabilities. Your skills can range from being a data step programmer to being a DW analyst/architect to running advanced analytics for a major corp.
In terms of training you can be an IT person, a statistician or a PhD in mathematics or none of the above.
All these things determine your rate and salary: programming has low barriers to entry and so rates are low, being a statistician or advanced mathematican has high barriers to entry and so rates are much higher.
In every business area the demand for low value-added commodity skills (e.g. average code monkey) as opposed to strategic high value-added skills has fallen and will continue to fall.

[gingerjedi]

Is this thread about lower IT salaries in general or specific niche skills?

Someone seems to think it's the later but I don't see where the OP made that distinction?