Reduction in Drink Drive Limit

[doodab]

I think it's time for a zero tolerance policy to law breaking in general. People (including me, if I'm honest) need to stop being of the opinion that the laws they obey are a matter of personal choice. We also need a more effective process for adapting the laws of the land to the collective will and punishments that deter people.

[MarillionFan]

I think it's time for a zero tolerance policy to law breaking in general. People (including me, if I'm honest) need to stop being of the opinion that the laws they obey are a matter of personal choice. We also need a more effective process for adapting the laws of the land to the collective will and punishments that deter people.

Obeying laws are a matter of personal choice. They are designed to ensure that society functions cohesively as a whole and that punishments fit the crime.

If you want punishments to deter people and a zero tolerance then move towards Sharia law.

[doodab]

They are designed to ensure that society functions cohesively as a whole and that punishments fit the crime.

But this doesn't seem to be the outcome we are seeing does it?

Obeying laws are a matter of personal choice

Yes, you can always argue it's a question of conscience but it ought to be a choice between obeying the law or accepting the punishment, not a choice between obeying the law or ignoring it without consequence.

I'm not suggesting we implement sharia law or anything like it, I'm simply suggesting that the laws we have are enforced in such a way as to deter people from flouting them willy nilly. The end result will be greater freedom for the law abiding citizen because they can live safe in the knowledge that most people are obeying rules that are designed to benefit everyone.

[MarillionFan]

But this doesn't seem to be the outcome we are seeing does it?



Yes, you can always argue it's a question of conscience but it ought to be a choice between obeying the law or accepting the punishment, not a choice between obeying the law or ignoring it without consequence.

I'm not suggesting we implement sharia law or anything like it, I'm simply suggesting that the laws we have are enforced in such a way as to deter people from flouting them willy nilly. The end result will be greater freedom for the law abiding citizen because they can live safe in the knowledge that most people are obeying rules that are designed to benefit everyone.

Who decides on the basis for society what is acceptable as a law? For example, smoking is bad, therefore outlaw within pub, anyone who doesn't like smoking is therefore a law abiding citizen everyone else feels harangued against.

You don't like kids hanging around your street. Enforce a law that all groups over 3 are illegal. Punish them if they break the law.

You don't like cannabis. Make it a hanging offence! Therefore nobody will do it. RIGHT!

Laws are designed to ensure there is a boundary around society. Make too many laws and you strangle it. You then land up with a cotton wool society full of dull camomile drinking 'law abiding' liberal bedwetters living in somebodies idea of a Shangri La CBBC episode while everyone else is a criminal.

Outlaw pishing the bed Doodab and then you'd be a law breaker as well.

[doodab]

Who decides on the basis for society what is acceptable as a law? For example, smoking is bad, therefore outlaw within pub, anyone who doesn't like smoking is therefore a law abiding citizen everyone else feels harangued against.

You don't like kids hanging around your street. Enforce a law that all groups over 3 are illegal. Punish them if they break the law.
You don't like cannabis. Make it a hanging offence! Therefore nobody will do it. RIGHT!

Laws are designed to ensure there is a boundary around society. Make too many laws and you strangle it. You then land up with a cotton wool society full of dull camomile drinking 'law abiding' liberal bedwetters living in somebodies idea of a Shangri La CBBC episode while everyone else is a criminal.

Outlaw pishing the bed Doodab and then you'd be a law breaker as well.

Society ought to decide. That is the point of democracy, non?

I'm not suggesting creating more laws, i'm suggesting we adjust the statute book to correspond to consenus opinion of what constitutes justice and enforce the rules we set ourself. If you want to live in a lawless society move to somalia.

Ps you might find the belief that one ought to have personal choice and repsonsibility is what makes a liberal liberal. It's modern use as a derogatory term is largely due to right wing american media. Sorry to point thiss out, but your as liberal as they come.

[gricerboy]

throw them in gaol.

Thy idea dost have a certain logick

[doodab]

Whomever repped me as a "liberal bedwetter", let me ask you this.

Do you believe that

a) Society should have no laws
b) Society should have laws but they should be considered mere guidelines and people should be free to break them as they see fit without significant punishment
c) Society should have *some* laws and the punishment for breaking them should be sufficient to act as a deterrent

I am advocating c, as it seems to me that laws that no one is minded to obey are somewhat pointless. As you profess to consider this position invalid, I would be interested to hear your justification for whichever of the alternatives you are advocating.

[doodab]

Yeah.

We need this guy.

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/1s...judgedredd.jpg

Or him:

[Gonzo]

Well I am all up for that. What is stopping them implementing that? Human rights?

Where I am now, the Police set up road-blocks and breath-test everyone driving through them.

There is no singling anybody out and I don't see how anyone could object to that approach.

[MarillionFan]

Where I am now, the Police set up road-blocks and breath-test everyone driving through them.

There is no singling anybody out and I don't see how anyone could object to that approach.

They do that in plenty of countries. I don't think anyone would object to that late in the evening.

But the UK police are so fixed on statistics it would never take off as the percentage of arrests would be low.