So much for going down the plumbing route

[Jabberwocky]

And whose bottom did you just drop out of DA ?

[DodgyAgent]

And whose bottom did you just drop out of DA ?

[Board Game Geek]

Reading through this highly entertaining discussion, there are some salient points which The People v AtW make, all valid in their own right.

Atw does touch on an interesting issue....and that is how much should a self-employed businessman charge for their services ? DA hits the nail on the head and says "as much as he likes, since the market (buyers) will regulate accordingly.

Imagine the following scenario...

A desert island, with 1000 people, 1 of whom is a plumber. 999 need his services, and thus his rates are going to be high, since a) he is in constant demand and b) he has no competition.

Now imagine a desert island with 1000 people, of which 20 are plumbers. You would reasonably expect the price of a plumber to reflect the competition. Sure, there will be variances, based on competence, but overall, one would expect the price to be considerably lower.

I think the point AtW is trying to make, is that given the second scenario is more applicable to the demographic today, why is the pricing model more like the first scenario ? Why has it not naturally gone down due to additional supply ? If natural laws have not driven the price down, then unnatural laws are keeping it artificially high.

The question is, is this unnatural bouyancy desirable ? Should we just accept it and why ?

I do sympathise with the later discussion on the pay of a scientist compared to that of a plumber however.

Call me old fashioned, but I thought the point of being gifted with academical brilliance and going to University and studying the hard sciences was to ensure that you would be financially rewarded for your efforts later in life.

There are some seriously brilliant people out there who we should financially recognise.

Yes, I know the plumber who saves your kitchen from flooding is a godsend, but when put in to context against someone like Dr. Christian Barnard (pioneer Heart Surgeon) or even Joe Smith (research grad working on a cure for breast cancer), his efforts pale in to insignificance.

(Ok...Barnard was a bad example....he probably did earn squillions...but for every plumber out there, there is at least 1 gifted grad who has spent years at Uni now being paid 20K a year in some dingy little lab)

You may say, yess BGG, but at 3am in the morning, who do you want to fix your flooded kitchen....the plumber or the grad...but that's not what we are discussing in part 2 of the forum. We're discussing why academic study and hard work and sheer brain talent is somehow less worthy is the eyes of most people compared to that of a plumber.

Perhaps we should have a complete IQ assessment of each identifiable career, and a nationwide IQ test for the individuals in each career category.

Then we could ascertain a national average, and publish the results and then rethink how we pay people.

[OrangeHopper]

Risk exposure?

Income reduction!

[threaded]

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~kovar/hall.html

[monkeyboy]

Just to hop into the debate, and then leave rapidly.

Has it occured to anyone that plumbers like contracters have a minimum ammount that they will work for.

Ie i would not get out of bed for less than say 45 pounds an hour. The plumber is the same he wants a a decent living to. If the rates drop so far the plumber will do exactly what alot of contractors did and jump ship into another job.
The supply dries up and the rates rise again.

I guess that there is a price you have to pay for a good plumber

Would I allow any old work man into my home..NO I choose them on recommendations.

The plumber I use is not cheap but hes trust worthy. Thats Possibly is why the rates never go down below a certain point.

The good trades men do not need to drop there rates because they will always have enough work because people are willing to pay the money for good work. An economic down turn is another thing altogether but this affects everybody.

Ie ther is no conperecy or monopoly or anything else. Its pure economics.

[The Master]

Perhaps we should have a complete IQ assessment of each identifiable career, and a nationwide IQ test for the individuals in each career category.

Then we could ascertain a national average, and publish the results and then rethink how we pay people.

Excellent assessement, BGG. Glad to see that so many of us are in agreement with AtW. I think we are clearly all agreed that the only way to ensure things are fair is for the state to tell each profession how much it is allowed to charge. I see no reason why the independent measure shouldn't be IQ, but I feel that it would be better if a board appointed by the government make these sorts of decisions. Only the state would have the objective overview necessary to judge which of us is of more use to our collective society.

[planetit]

I think you’re all missing an obvious point.

He hired a plumber to fit a bit of carpet! No wonder it was expensive. What he needs is a carpet fitter.

Problem solved. I don’t know why you didn’t ask for my help sooner.

[Gibbon]

Threaded's post just shores up my opinion that degrees are a waste of time for most people!!!!. Especially in IT. Judging from from some of the people I've come into contact with I think they must have given them away but it doesn't stop alot of them thinking they are uber beings and the rest of humanity is uneducated dross. You guessed it, I haven't a degree and this seems to really upset some permies, good.

[Phoenix]

Threaded's post just shores up my opinion that degrees are a waste of time for most people!!!!. Especially in IT. Judging from from some of the people I've come into contact with I think they must have given them away but it doesn't stop alot of them thinking they are uber beings and the rest of humanity is uneducated dross. You guessed it, I haven't a degree and this seems to really upset some permies, good.

I agree Gibbon. WHat sort of a State are these people suggesting? Maybe they would "get Rid" of the lower IQ's for fear of contaminating their gene pool?
And how typical that these Uber beings end up with a plumber instead of a carpet fitter!!