Fraud attempt

[Peoplesoft bloke]

If the idea that I object to handing over my fingerprints and effectively my entire identity to the civil service so I can pay them extra sums to manage it (almost certainly badly) for the rest of my life on the pathetic and incorrect pretext that it will prevent credit card fraud makes me small-minded; count me in - guilty and proud of it.

[minestrone]

If the idea that I object to handing over my fingerprints and effectively my entire identity to the civil service so I can pay them extra sums to manage it (almost certainly badly) for the rest of my life on the pathetic and incorrect pretext that it will prevent credit card fraud makes me small-minded; count me in - guilty and proud of it.

If you think that a record of your fingerprint is you entire identity then I expect you always wear gloves?

[Cliphead]

Anyways, I'm a foreigner in this country and have the required ID needed as a visitor / resident to function here indefinitley.

Happy to stay here and pay my share of tax but I can move anytime and probably will at some point.

The ID card issue can be circumvented if it ever becomes compulsory.

No worries

[Peoplesoft bloke]

If you think that a record of your fingerprint is you entire identity then I expect you always wear gloves?

That's not what I meant (as I'm sure you realise). Once the government establishes their ID card scheme as a single de-facto standard for ID that will be my entire identity for the purposes of a normal (law abiding) life in this country.

I don't trust them to manage my identity; to keep it safe, and I object the reversal of my relationship with the state - where I become their property. It is morally wrong, but it will fail for practical reasons.

It will not stop credit card fraud - the majority of that is cardholder not present fraud which it offers precisely zero protection against.

How many homeless people, illegal immigrants, travellers, old people, mentally ill people and so on do you think will get an ID card - unless it is compulsory for all and probably compulsory to carry it, its use as an every day proof will be limited; but the size of the enforcement operation needed to force every single person in the country to have one will be massive and extremely costly. Apparently the Police can't cope with the volume of credit card fraud - how the hell are they going to enforce compulsory ID cards?

It's only going to take say 30% of hardcore refusniks like me to render the whole thing useless (which it is anyway).

[The Wikir Man]

I'm in favour of a compulsory ID card.

Just not one that has any kind of link to a big database - I want the lowest technology possible. Bit of cardboard and a black and white photo stuck to it.

If the cards look like they can be easily forged, then people will be wary of accepting them as conclusive proof of ID. It might help, but it won't be conclusive by any means. If the cards look like they are super-dooper high-tech, and the PR companies are telling us that they are hack-proof, forge-proof and all-round wonderful, then people will accept the card and only the card. Which when the data is incorrect, leaves you with a massive uphill struggle to prove that you are who you are rather than who the database says you are.

And for that reason, I'm out.

[minestrone]

That's not what I meant (as I'm sure you realise). Once the government establishes their ID card scheme as a single de-facto standard for ID that will be my entire identity for the purposes of a normal (law abiding) life in this country.

I don't trust them to manage my identity; to keep it safe, and I object the reversal of my relationship with the state - where I become their property. It is morally wrong, but it will fail for practical reasons.

It will not stop credit card fraud - the majority of that is cardholder not present fraud which it offers precisely zero protection against.

How many homeless people, illegal immigrants, travellers, old people, mentally ill people and so on do you think will get an ID card - unless it is compulsory for all and probably compulsory to carry it, its use as an every day proof will be limited; but the size of the enforcement operation needed to force every single person in the country to have one will be massive and extremely costly. Apparently the Police can't cope with the volume of credit card fraud - how the hell are they going to enforce compulsory ID cards?

What will then?

I will turn the question to you, I signed the OSA so I'm not going to go into details but a fraud squad detective would have to run time at 100 times slower just to read the cases now. 1000 times to even follow them up.

The crime is completely unmanageable and it is a crime where there are thousands ans thousands of innocent victims. There is no way to stop it with current technology.

So what is your answer? Just let it go on as you so clearly offer as the answer?

[The Wikir Man]

What will then?

Whether there is anything else that will stop that kind of fraud is a moot point - an ID card won't stop the majority of credit / debit card fraud.

[minestrone]

Whether there is anything else that will stop that kind of fraud is a moot point - an ID card won't stop the majority of credit / debit card fraud.

Why not?

I have been answering questions for the last 80 posts so it's my time to question.

Tell me the mechanisms fraudsters use and how they cannot be protected by ID cards?

[The Wikir Man]

Why not?

I have been answering questions for the last 80 posts so it's my time to question.

Tell me the mechanisms fraudsters use and how they cannot be protected by ID cards?

Cardholder not present - give them the card number and they put it through. How is having an ID card going to stop that?

<pedant>
This is post 79 in this thread, so to be answering 80 posts would require a thread significantly longer than this one
</pedant>

[minestrone]

Cardholder not present - give them the card number and they put it through. How is having an ID card going to stop that?

Are you a tester?

"computer says no"

What the feck are you dribbling about man "Cardholder not present"?