Tax System Explained in Beer

[VectraMan]

So what is wrong is that people who are working can be no better off than people on benefits. That one does need sorting.

Just pay the same benefits to everybody, working or not. It means even those at the bottom are encouraged to take any work at all, even a few hours a week would be beneficial.

It'd cost lots of money, but think about all the savings that could be made in beauracracy.

[scooterscot]

You're not female by any chance are you?

I'll have go...

So single parents whose partner died in Afghanistan deserve help. No-one disputes that.

What about a single parent whose partner died run over by a drunk driver?

It's called life assurance... but our financially uneducated credit card debt laden populous could not afford £20 a month when they were buying the latest plasma TV?

What about a single parent whose partner killed him/herself drink driving?

See above

What about a single parent who left an abusive partner?

The abusive partner should be hunted down with a big stick and not to allowed the opportunity to evade equal contributions to the up-bringing of the young ones until their 18th. The PC labour brigade have not got the balls or the common sense to enforce such legislation.

What about a single parent who left because their partner had an affair?

See above - the children are the responsibility of both adults regardless of what they should choose to do with their lives. Union should be encouraged between consenting adults who choose to bring up children, whether through marriage, civil partnership,,

What about the thirty year old who finds herself accidentally pregnant?

What, did she fall in an unimaginable awkward fashion?

What about the sixteen year old who finds herself accidentally pregnant?

see above - Education Education Education, not, payout payout after payout

[scooterscot]

So what is wrong is that people who are working can be no better off than people on benefits. That one does need sorting.

The system has been like that for years. I recalled meeting a chap down in the pub, which me and colleagues would go into during lunch break. We were working he was collecting benefits. Played snooker all day and we're marched back indoors to the office when 1 O' Clock whistle blew.

[centurian]

So what is wrong is that people who are working can be no better off than people on benefits. That one does need sorting.

Will be worse off...

Certainly in the case of minimum wage jobs. That's part of the reason why we've had so much immigration in the past few years - to do the jobs that the local population wouldn't do because they are worse off.

[EternalOptimist]

The number of people who split up in order to improve their finances must be tiny .

Whats really happening here is that people pretend to split up in order to maximise their income. They pretend a lot of other stuff by the way.
There are VERY few people on benefits who will get married knowing that their income will suffer.

But, a loving unmarried couple on benefits, can not be any worse for the kids than a loving married couple on less benefits, so the argument is not about family life.

The argument is about people fiddling the benefits system. And one of the biggest abuses (i am sorry k2p2 and Pogle) is young girls getting free accomodation by having a kid. Before this happened , the number of teen pregnancies was tiny, now its a problem

[centurian]

What wouldn't be right is a system that forces people to stay in miserable relationships because they can't afford to leave.

But no-one is talking about removing those benefits for single people - merely that a different tax benefit is introduced for married couples, which probably amounts to a partial shifting/sharing of personal allowances.

A single person won't be any worse off than they are now..

[centurian]

and we're marched back indoors to the office when 1 O' Clock whistle blew.

... to pay for his lifestyle...

[mudskipper]

And one of the biggest abuses (i am sorry k2p2 and Pogle) is young girls getting free accomodation by having a kid. Before this happened , the number of teen pregnancies was tiny, now its a problem

Have you seen the accommodation that a teenage single mum can expect to be offered? She will be put on the council flat waiting list, and through the 'points system' will indeed get higher priority than a single person without kids. However, she can still expect to wait four or five years for anything resembling decent accommodation. If, in the meantime, she is forced out of her parents home, she can expect to live in a bedsit or other 'temporary accommodation'. If girls really are becoming pregnant to get a house (and again, I suspect (but don't know) the numbers are tiny), they're sorely disappointed with the reality. Bringing up a baby is damned hard work - more so when you're alone and 16 with no money.

[mudskipper]

the children are the responsibility of both adults regardless of what they should choose to do with their lives. Union should be encouraged between consenting adults who choose to bring up children, whether through marriage, civil partnership,,

Agreed. But in the event that payments are not forthcoming, this needs to be dealt with, without the kids going short. This process can take months/years.

What, did she fall in an unimaginable awkward fashion?

All contraception has a failure rate. Abortion is not for everyone, and is not without its own long term consequences.

Education Education Education, not, payout payout after payout

Again, agreed. But the education has got to be effective, which, if we believe the Daily Mail, it isn't. The fundamental reason for 'planned' teenage pregnancy is, IMO, low self esteem. If you believe you have a good future, you don't look for a way out.

[EternalOptimist]

Have you seen the accommodation that a teenage single mum can expect to be offered? She will be put on the council flat waiting list, and through the 'points system' will indeed get higher priority than a single person without kids. However, she can still expect to wait four or five years for anything resembling decent accommodation. If, in the meantime, she is forced out of her parents home, she can expect to live in a bedsit or other 'temporary accommodation'. If girls really are becoming pregnant to get a house (and again, I suspect (but don't know) the numbers are tiny), they're sorely disappointed with the reality. Bringing up a baby is damned hard work - more so when you're alone and 16 with no money.

I have indeed. The accommodation is not good, but its accomodation. The number of accidental pregnancies can be worked out by looking at the number of teenage pregnancies before they got put at the top of the council list, and the number of deliberate teenage pregnancies can be worked out by looking at the number now. (You are just plain wrong about the numbers)
It would take a prime-time wazzock to claim there was no obvious link.

You are right about the wake up call. Most of the girls who make this move are headed for a world of sh1te, and by the time they realise this, its too late. They see it as a way out - but its out of the frying pan and into the fire.


The benefits system is wide open to abuse, the tories are tinkering with one facet of it.