Fecking mess

[tim123]

Not true, case studies of all countries with flat rate taxes has shown that tax collection has increased since the introduction. However, if you read the paper released by Gordo, where he had all the good points about flat rate systems removed, you would think flat rate tax systems are a bad thing

Mailman

For a flat tax starting at 5K perhaps, but one starting at 28K doesn't have a hope.

Just how many people earn more than 28K?

tim

[Scaroth of the Jagaroth]

The think tank proposal was for a flat rate of 25% kicking in at £12k to raise more or less the same revenue as currently. Germany and Holland are both looking at the idea but favour a much higher flat rate, as you might expect: 35%.

[Churchill]

The think tank proposal was for a flat rate of 25% kicking in at £12k to raise more or less the same revenue as currently. Germany and Holland are both looking at the idea but favour a much higher flat rate, as you might expect: 35%.

Will the flat rate of 35% include their Social Security payments?

[Scaroth of the Jagaroth]

Will the flat rate of 35% include their Social Security payments?

As far as I recall it was "all in", yes, hence the higher rate kicking in lower. Germany in particular is having an anguished time over the concept of it not being "progressive" (i.e. not penalising big earners).

[Churchill]

As far as I recall it was "all in", yes, hence the higher rate kicking in lower. Germany in particular is having an anguished time over the concept of it not being "progressive" (i.e. not penalising big earners).

Petty Jealousy...

If you earn more, why should you pay a greater percentage... Where's the incentive?

Oh, errr, sorry, we've already gone through this bit, haven't we?

[Mailman]

Such a high rate doesnt encourage people to contribute though. There is basically no change to what they are paying now. Also having such a low baseline (£12k) still means that people will look for ways of cheating. The beauty of a low tax rate and a high threshold is that there is no point in trying to evade paying tax.

Thus once again my ideas have shown themselves to be far superior to anything you goons have come up with yet

Mailman

[Churchill]

Such a high rate doesnt encourage people to contribute though. There is basically no change to what they are paying now. Also having such a low baseline (£12k) still means that people will look for ways of cheating. The beauty of a low tax rate and a high threshold is that there is no point in trying to evade paying tax.

Thus once again my ideas have shown themselves to be far superior to anything you goons have come up with yet

Mailman

Your ideas?

I have proof that the mighty(in stature and ability) Threaded first discussed this proposal in 1289BC

[Scaroth of the Jagaroth]

Such a high rate doesnt encourage people to contribute though. There is basically no change to what they are paying now. Also having such a low baseline (£12k) still means that people will look for ways of cheating. The beauty of a low tax rate and a high threshold is that there is no point in trying to evade paying tax.

Thus once again my ideas have shown themselves to be far superior to anything you goons have come up with yet

Mailman

Mailman, the idea behind a flat tax is not that everybody pays less tax, although for those on the bottom of the ladder this will be the case. The idea is that the system is simplified making it more difficult to evade or avoid tax. If all income, regardless of source, is taxed at the same flat rate with no exceptions, evasion/avoidance becomes much more difficult.

[NoddY]

Tax credits are effectively a subsidy to top-up wages (as are many benefits) administered by a massive bureaucracy. Ideally the money that is locked up in this crazy system is given back to the real economy - thus negating the need for the wage subsidy in the first place.

As for a fair tax - the only 'fair' tax is one on consumption aka VAT!
This is turn raises an interesting scenario where people are ONLY taxed on consumption. Earners are left with an untaxed income in their pocket - thus transfering responsibility for spending and investment from government to the individual. Tidy thought I think, but the cost of enforcement could be as much as maintaining the current bureaucracy.

[Scaroth of the Jagaroth]

But VAT is a harshly regressive tax, affecting those on lowest incomes the most. Unless you are suggesting that VAT becomes banded, with the price you pay for goods dependent on how much you earn?