Terrorists have arrived

[zeitghost]

You may have something there, Homer.

It does sound as if it came from the wrong side of a wormhole...

[DodgyAgent]

The jist of your point

I don't think you'll find many who are sad to see the back of Saddam Hussien. What people object to is the 100,000 civilian death toll, the daily carnage wrought by suicide bombers that Iraqis face on a daily basis, the abuse sufferred at the hands of the US forces and the general way in which thier lives have been turned into a living hell.

The jist of my point is that invading a country under false pretences benefitted the neo-cons and large corporations in the US but it is we, the citizens of London and the poor feckers in Iraq have to pay the price.

The Jist of your point ALM is that any of the problems that the world has can be laid at the feet of the Americans. You make absurd statements about presuming to know how the Iraqis feel and you use one off instances to create perceptions of US soldiers that are unfounded. What you neatly omit from your anti corporation anti American hysteria is that these suicide bombers are as happy to kill Iraqi women and children as they are American soldiers.

So if these people are reacting so violently against the Wests intervention in Iraq then why are they butchering more muslims than Americans?

I have another point that no one on this site has been able to challenge with any logic. Given that America is so dominated by greedy corporates (who incidentally create the wealth that all you guilt ridden liberals enjoy) why did the US go the trouble of halting the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and the Balkans? And given that Dutch, French, German and other anti Iraq invasion countries stood and watched while serbs massacred muslims, then these people would surely be in line for terrorist retribution.

The truth is that these terrorists are highly selective of the excuses they need to attack the West, for if they even mentioned the Balkans they would find that some of their brainwashed recruits may raise an eyebrow or two at the help that the Americans and British gave in stopping the bloodshed in Bosnia.

[Dundeegeorge]

Ooh ooh I've got a question, I've got a question

Since the West is the antichrist, how come every ******* man and his dog wants to come here? Not perhaps because you can actually live a (relatively) free life, without being told how to think, dress and believe, is it?

[oliver]

I have another point that no one on this site has been able to challenge with any logic. Given that America is so dominated by greedy corporates (who incidentally create the wealth that all you guilt ridden liberals enjoy) why did the US go the trouble of halting the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and the Balkans? And given that Dutch, French, German and other anti Iraq invasion countries stood and watched while serbs massacred muslims, then these people would surely be in line for terrorist retribution.

The Americans became involved in the Balkans to avoid the breakup of NATO which would have followed a European-only military solution. The European countries you mention do not want the continuation of the massive American military presence (a leftover of the post WW2 occupation) in Europe.

Politics is not about 'saving the world' and other such altruistic notions. The US 'saved' Europe over the problems in the former Yougoslavia to promote their own interests. Just like they won't 'save' anyone in the Sudan because it does not promote their interests.

And anyway, where were the Americans during the subsequent peacekeeping operations?

Also, did the Americans not excacerbate the ethnic cleansing by informing the perpetrators that they would not be engaged directly but instead by air power only? Did the Americans not bomb and kill thousands of European citizens during that war? Does that not make you uneasy?

Also, a bit of realpolitik for you: I seem to remember the Americans sending a message to the Chinese during that conflict by accidentally precision bombing their embassy.

[DodgyAgent]

My point

The Americans became involved in the Balkans to avoid the breakup of NATO which would have followed a European-only military solution. The European countries you mention do not want the continuation of the massive American military presence (a leftover of the post WW2 occupation) in Europe.

Politics is not about 'saving the world' and other such altruistic notions. The US 'saved' Europe over the problems in the former Yougoslavia to promote their own interests. Just like they won't 'save' anyone in the Sudan because it does not promote their interests.

And anyway, where were the Americans during the subsequent peacekeeping operations?

Also, did the Americans not excacerbate the ethnic cleansing by informing the perpetrators that they would not be engaged directly but instead by air power only? Did the Americans not bomb and kill thousands of European citizens during that war? Does that not make you uneasy?

Also, a bit of realpolitik for you: I seem to remember the Americans sending a message to the Chinese during that conflict by accidentally precision bombing their embassy.

You have completely missed my point with your anti American "spin".

My point was that using the invasion of Iraq as an excuse for committing terrorist attacks on the pro Iraq invading countries is not a valid one. If any countries deserve to be attacked for killing muslims it is those that were suposed to be halting the ethnic cleansing of muslims in the Balkans. The Americans on the other hand actually did something about it..

I wont take you on in a futile tit for tat of who did what and conspiracy theories etc etc. Like religion conspiracy theories are impossible to disprove.

[oliver]

You have completely missed my point with your anti American "spin".

My point was that using the invasion of Iraq as an excuse for committing terrorist attacks on the pro Iraq invading countries is not a valid one. If any countries deserve to be attacked for killing muslims it is those that were suposed to be halting the ethnic cleansing of muslims in the Balkans. The Americans on the other hand actually did something about it..

I wont take you on in a futile tit for tat of who did what and conspiracy theories etc etc. Like religion conspiracy theories are impossible to disprove.

There are no conspiracy theories in my post. Apart from...the Chinese reference which was just a cheap shot.

Your point is correct. I just wanted to have a go at the challenge you made in your earlier post.

[WageSlave]

why did the US go the trouble of halting the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and the Balkans? And given that Dutch, French, German and other anti Iraq invasion countries stood and watched while serbs massacred muslims, then these people would surely be in line for terrorist retribution.

The Americans are very fond of extending their infuence into the former Soviet sphere. That conflict offered the Americans the perfect opportunity. And they almost started a war with Russia in the process.
If the Yanks are so interested in world peace, why did they attempt to exclude Russia from the process?

[Chico]

Wage

somewhere somehow the details have been lost. What actually happened is this

Muslims being slaughtered by Milosovic
UN ignores it
Blair attempts to get UN Security Council to authorise us of force
France/Russia veto it
Blair convinces Clinton to commit US ground troops and Join british troop to end the slaughter
Our boys and the Yanks do the business.
Blair hailed as a hero in the Balkans - he is mobbed by thousands in Kosovo

see link from July 1999 - from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/408602.stm

I unlike others on this board deal with fact not wishy washy history.

[Bagpuss]

I unlike others on this board deal with fact not wishy washy history.


The Bible?

[ALM]

Muslims being slaughtered by Milosovic
UN ignores it
Blair attempts to get UN Security Council to authorise us of force
France/Russia veto it
Blair convinces Clinton to commit US ground troops and Join british troop to end the slaughter
Our boys and the Yanks do the business.
Blair hailed as a hero in the Balkans - he is mobbed by thousands in Kosovo

Tha fact that we rightfully intervened in the Balkans in no way justifies what has occurred in Iraq. Perhaps it would be useful to summarise the sequence of events over the past couple of years:

We were led to believe that Iraq possessed WMD and was capable of launching an attack on us within 45 minutes. This, we know now was an out and out lie. The ease with which we entered Iraq and the failed searches for WMD has proved that Iraq was incaapable of defending even itself, let alone the attack anyone else. The subsequent invasion and the insurgency that all too predictably followed has led to the needless death of over 100,000 Iraqis.

If we as a nation allow ourselves to be embroiled in such butal and unjustified acts we will make ourselves targets for these suicide bombers. To those who benefitted from the war this is a price worth paying. We in the UK haven't gained anything from the war ... it has cost billions to finance, achieved none of the goals of the so called 'war on terror' and has only increased the likelyhood of us losing our lives as we go about our daily business.