Contractors are Thatchers children

[MPwannadecentincome]

It is equally possible that I am thinking of his Spitting Image puppet.

I remember the Thatcher and cabinet Spitting Image puppets, esp Heseltine and Douglas Hurd (ice cream hair style)!

One sketch that comes to mind is Maggie going into the hairdresser...

"I want a hairstyle that will be universally popular"

Hairdresser sits her down on the chair, goes into cupboard, pulls out cut throat razor and swish! Lops her head off!

It was fun at the time to Maggie bash but all in all I think she did a lot of good for the country.

Just don't tell Sid about Railtrack shares....

[MPwannadecentincome]

What is wrong with private education in England is that it's not open to all sections in society.

In Denmark there are various types of private education and parents are pretty much able to choose what type for their kids irrespective of income. I know a hospital cleaner and a council gardener with children not just in private education, but at a full blown boarding school. Most of the fees are paid for by the state as school fees follow the child, they don't just go into a pot that is doled out to those schools currently in favour.

I'd vote to have that here please - my daughter did not do well at State school here, the classroom was noisy there was no real teaching just the teacher shouting at the kids as there was no discipline - and this is the leafy suburbs 'high performing' primary.

[Mich the Tester]

the plebs are chucking chairs at each other or picking on the kid at the top of the class.

That happened at the private school I went to. perhaps not as much, and the really antisocial gits were eventually chucked out, but private school isn´t necessarily some idyll of polite, perfectly behaved children.

[Mich the Tester]

What is wrong with private education in England is that it's not open to all sections in society.

In Denmark there are various types of private education and parents are pretty much able to choose what type for their kids irrespective of income. I know a hospital cleaner and a council gardener with children not just in private education, but at a full blown boarding school. Most of the fees are paid for by the state as school fees follow the child, they don't just go into a pot that is doled out to those schools currently in favour.

Is the problem the British education system or simply British parents?

Most state schools here on le continent seem to do more than OK without the need for school uniforms, draconian discipline, high school fees or league tables.

[threaded]

I'd vote to have that here please - my daughter did not do well at State school here, the classroom was noisy there was no real teaching just the teacher shouting at the kids as there was no discipline - and this is the leafy suburbs 'high performing' primary.

Yes, my friend who ended up sending her daughter to a boarding school did so because the school the child was put in had so many 'indvandrer' (2nd generation immigrant children) that her Danish language skills were suffering, also she was the only white girl in the class, and the teachers role was mainly containment between the school hours. Upside has that she was picking up Arabic. Now she's in a boarding school and learning Chinese.

[Mich the Tester]

Yes, my friend who ended up sending her daughter to a boarding school did so because the school the child was put in had so many 'indvandrer' (2nd generation immigrant children) that her Danish language skills were suffering, also she was the only white girl in the class, and the teachers role was mainly containment between the school hours. Upside has that she was picking up Arabic. Now she's in a boarding school and learning Chinese.

Arabic and Mandarin could be two very useful languages to learn.

[MPwannadecentincome]

Arabic and Mandarin could be two very useful languages to learn.

Some schools do offer Mandarin as an option now.

[DodgyAgent]

I was in the first year to miss the grammar. I'm not sure of the facts but Barbara Castle took the blame in our household ! At a personal level at the time I was quite happy as the main difference for me was 2 hours homework a year rather than 2 hours a night. The comp was OK(ish) and I think the top set from the comp did just as well exam wise at age 16 as the kids a year older who went to the grammar. I'm sure some of the kids who would of just missed the grammar did infact benefit. Very undodgylike but I would not only do away with grammer schools but I'd also do away with private education ( and religious schools ). It is one sure fire way of motivating the politicians and everyone else involved to sort out a decent education for all. In other words their kids would have to go and compete on a level playing field with everybody else.

I find it interesting that you seem to think that by removing the best schools education would somehow improve? show me a single example in any facet of life where this has ever worked. I would suggest that without the benchmark of excellence that is provided by the private schools that state education could give as poor a service as it liked.

Basically you support a communist style system where you control the market by controlling and restricting the supply?
So according to your logic the way to improve food retail would be to have one chain of supermarkets which would then serve every customer and those customers would lobby and pressurise the supermarket to provide top quality food at the best prices!
I would like to see just how low your "level playing field" would need to be?
A better solution would be to privatise all education and give parents and guardians state funded vouchers that would create choice. Schools would be run under license and the introduction of consumer choice would force all schools to perform to the highest level.

[rootsnall]

I find it interesting that you seem to think that by removing the best schools education would somehow improve?

I think it would improve for a lot of kids. Do you really think the comps in London would not improve if everybody had to send their kids to them.

[Mich the Tester]

I think it would improve for a lot of kids. Do you really think the comps in London would not improve if everybody had to send their kids to them.

There is a case to be made that state schools need the influence of parents who really care about their kids education, and at the same time some middle class parents seem to outsource the kind of thing that they could do voluntarily, like supervising sports, activities, theatre clubs and music lessons, which all go on at private schools. Here in Holland voluntary work is seen as a normal part of life, especially when it involves helping to run a sports club's youth section or activities for young people.

The thing is, you can't go forcing responsible people to send their kids to substandard schools in the hope they can then exert a positive influence. I think the improvement needs to come from the state system first, and then people will start to consider it as a good option.

Just like DA's supermarket analogy. Do you want to close the shop that's providing good service and products at a good price so as to give a chance to all the other shops, or do you think that the other shops should get their act together? I think the second option would lead to a higher standard all round.