Some thoughts from employer's point of view

[AtW]

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to come back on to this contractors' web site to slag us off.

What makes you think I am slagging you (in general) off?

In fact, if you read carefully you'll see that I made a very big compliment - contracting market fundamentally should operate on the same economical premise as taxies (thanks for correction), which means you spend half the time doing nothing and then charging premium to do short term job.

The UK IT contracting market is distorted - people in it are in my view (see compliment?) ex-permies who knew they are good enough to effectively have full-time job, while charging taxi rates. This may work on case by case basis - some people might be so effing good and they desire to work via their Ltd for tax reasons, ok - this can still work out for top 10%, maybe top 5% - but it can't work for 100% of contractors.

Talking of which - I don't think IT is that good field for contracting apart from some parts, like say network setup, or anything that can be defined pretty clearly and timescale can be put on it well. For development, which is what SKA Inc does, contracting does not seem to make sense - certainly not for us as we don't do trivial stuff.

Do you feel slagged off when I say that? You need to get a thicker skin - you'll need it if you want to be a contractor!

[AtW]

Part of the problem lies where mentioned earlier - some contracting rates are stupidly high.

I agree - when I look at those £500 per day rates it's like wtf is going on? If the job that's done saves a lot of money to company because you know how to fix big problem in a very short time, then fine - this can be worth £5000, but if you do permie job full-time at this rate then you'd better be ****ing good because a lot of people in IT earn far less.

IT development (that we do) is not the same as plumbing or gas work or window changing where task are easily defined, there is clear result that is expected and can be easily verified, I want to see people who can take initiative, who understand the business and have vested interest in it - because they work full time there and their future is tied to the business. That said the business should pay them well and create good conditions at work - both of which SKA Inc does I believe.

[AtW]

It's pointless moaning about the relative expense of contractors vs permies. Contractors are operating in an open market.

Indeed. So don't moan when big companies outsource en masse or get people on ICT: this is the direct result of skew in market which occurred when occasional usage "taxi rates" started being applied to regular usage "public transport rates".

I don't care how much anyone earns on here - certainly this is more than I did or do now, that's not important - I am now looking at this problem from employers' point of view.

[AtW]

- company has some work to be completed (e.g. bunch of stored procs that need coding)
- person is selected to do it (few days to a few weeks)
- price is agreed - enough to be profitable for a freelancer but not a burden for company
- work is completed.
- Repeat for next client

The reason for this is not happening (at least in IT development) is because IT development is simply not good field for this kind of thing: requirements change, defining everything perfectly is expensive, I'd much prefer smart employees who can take initiative without me telling them every step they have to do, because if I had to do that with exact API spec, then I might as well outsource it.

[suityou01]

Notice : No one wants to play. Now fark orf.

HTH

[mace]

Indeed. So don't moan when big companies outsource en masse or get people on ICT: this is the direct result of skew in market which occurred when occasional usage "taxi rates" started being applied to regular usage "public transport rates".

I don't care how much anyone earns on here - certainly this is more than I did or do now, that's not important - I am now looking at this problem from employers' point of view.

True but then is everybody exposed to an open market or are there artificial barriers to entry in some e.g. you can only employ a new MP every 5 years, investment banking requires you to have already worked in investment banking, becoming a barrister requires you to work for free for 3 years (thus excluding chavs from applying), the defence industry requires security vetting etc. You run a company, so I'm guessing you have sought some kind of intellectual property rights, which effectively excludes other companies just stealing your ideas. If you follow your argument you shouldn't complain when johnny foreigner waits for you to come up with ideas and then undercuts you.

[Zippy]

Notice : No one wants to play. Now fark orf.

HTH

I do actually.

AtW - I think you are being patronising. Your taxi analogy does not work for a start. If I were a taxi driver I would not expect you to get in my car, ask me to take you to the nearest hotel and then yell at me because you didn't like it.

It is perfectly possible to define a piece of work and then be adaptable as it progresses. We all know IT is like that.
I don't think I've ever done a contract where someone has told me what to do (they usually ask me what I need to do) and I generally get hired because it's already gone tits up, and they need someone to fix it.

I can appreciate you are looking at this from a different perspective, but you need to be more flexible in your thinking.

[shoes]

If it's not for you then don't do it. A small startup like yours is hardly representative of our clients.

And dude, you've been going 5 minutes, it's not quite time to lecture us on your wisdom as an employer, none of this is news to us.

[TykeMerc]

It's bleeding obvious that AtW is trolling on this SKA rubbish.

Sadly trolling like this isn't stamped down on by the admins and real posters feed it.

[AtW]

If it's not for you then don't do it. A small startup like yours is hardly representative of our clients.

And dude, you've been going 5 minutes, it's not quite time to lecture us on your wisdom as an employer, none of this is news to us.

That's true, I'll get back on this once we hire our 10th person, whenever that happens. Let's hope it will be a contractor...