Geert Wilders in Denmark: Deporting millions of Muslims may be necessary

[Churchill]

Right I'm off. This cretinous sockpuppet is too easy. You'll have to do better guys.
Chico, now there was a proper one. You could really while away the hours with "him".

Brave Sir Robin runs away!

[Mich the Tester]

This not related, did I say it was?

I showed you some figure suggesting that the number of muslims in Europe is growing at a geomtric rate.

Then I have suggested that maybe muslims, unlike other culture/religion have some problem to integrate with the occidental culture. Again through a few examples.

I have never said that ALL muslims are bad, but that the immigration coming from sub-proletarian muslim countries is maybe not a "chance for Europe" and should be controlled a bit more than it is now.

Ah, but if you want immigration from muslim countries to be 'controlled a bit more than it is now' then you're making an inherently moderate and reasonable statement. It's still a statement that not everyone would agree with, but it's a basis for reasoned discussion. However, you started by quoting Geert Wilders and his calls for mass deportations; that starts your argument off as being rather unreasonable, so you end up with unreasonable discussion.

As for a discussion on muslim population numbers, this is a very complex issue involving continually evolving demographic models which have to take account of the measure of urbanisation of a population group (urbanised populations have been shown to have high birth rates for the first generation compared to other urban groups, but lower birth rates than rural groups in the second generation). You also need to measure rates of conversionto other religions or dropping faith, and their influences on fertility rates. You'd need to consider effects of economic factors on birth rates, effects of education and public health provision etc etc etc. Have the predictions of geometric growth of muslim population taken account of all these factors? If they had, then I'd expect the forecasts to be somewhat less exciting; once these factors were added in to predictions of the world's population growth, the forecasts came down from a peak of about 25 billion to a peak of about 11 billion. If you want to predict the muslim population of Europe, you need to get beyond Malthusian concepts of geometric population growth which have never come true.

[sasguru]

So lets summarise:

Monsieur Rosbif started the thread with some random cut'n'pastes about the "islamisation of Europe". Closer investigation showed that he had made up his ridiculous estimate of 13% of the French population being Muslim.
When this was pointed out he tried to muddy the waters by pointing out the riots. It was then pointed out that these were economic not religious. He then tried to move on to Muslim criminality.

So in other words, all we can conclude is that Monsieur rosbif has some kind of hatred of Muslims. Probably got bummed by one earlier in his life.

[sasguru]

Welcome to the sasguru school of debate.

You'd better read the whole thread before making a fool of yourself by siding with Rosbif

[Mich the Tester]

Just one last article worth reading!

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/3940

It's not worth reading although I did. They've copied and pasted some posts from an internet forum with a few nutters posting bulltulip, like in most internet forums.

[Cyberman]

Who is to say that the Islamification of Europe is not a good outcome?

Surely the putting of the running of the UK into the hands of religious fanatics makes sense. After all, our politicians are pretty useless. At least Sharia Law will cleanse us from the murderers and other low-lifes.

[Le Rosbif]

Ah, but if you want immigration from muslim countries to be 'controlled a bit more than it is now' then you're making an inherently moderate and reasonable statement. It's still a statement that not everyone would agree with, but it's a basis for reasoned discussion. However, you started by quoting Geert Wilders and his calls for mass deportations; that starts your argument off as being rather unreasonable, so you end up with unreasonable discussion.

As for a discussion on muslim population numbers, this is a very complex issue involving continually evolving demographic models which have to take account of the measure of urbanisation of a population group (urbanised populations have been shown to have high birth rates for the first generation compared to other urban groups, but lower birth rates than rural groups in the second generation). You also need to measure rates of conversionto other religions or dropping faith, and their influences on fertility rates. You'd need to consider effects of economic factors on birth rates, effects of education and public health provision etc etc etc. Have the predictions of geometric growth of muslim population taken account of all these factors? If they had, then I'd expect the forecasts to be somewhat less exciting; once these factors were added in to predictions of the world's population growth, the forecasts came down from a peak of about 25 billion to a peak of about 11 billion. If you want to predict the muslim population of Europe, you need to get beyond Malthusian concepts of geometric population growth which have never come true.

Mich,

I agree that the article posted comes from somebody who's quite extremist and I did take some time to clearly differentiate myself from him, hence leading to the spitting of insulting fury coming from sasguru and others.

[DimPrawn]

Surely the putting of the running of the UK into the hands of religious fanatics makes sense. After all, our politicians are pretty useless. At least Sharia Law will cleanse us from the murderers and other low-lifes.

Agreed, and we get public executions too!

It's like travelling back 2000+ years to the Life of Brian

[Le Rosbif]

So lets summarise:

So in other words, all we can conclude is that Monsieur rosbif has some kind of hatred of Muslims. Probably got bummed by one earlier in his life.

another insult, will it never end?

[sasguru]

another insult, will it never end?

Not on this forum, no

Anyway next time do try to be more logical. Even though you're French.